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    But how is their customer service? I gave up on them after I had
    trouble linking my bank account to my Wise account, it took weeks
    for them to respond, and the response was one of those where you
    think "did you read my question???" kind of things. <br>
    <br>
    What do they do if:<br>
    <br>
    You accidentally send money to the wrong law firm?<br>
    The foreign law firm doesn't accept the money because they've
    changed banks, or you transposed numbers, etc. etc.?<br>
    How painful is it to send money to Russia? (Very painful with
    Western Union, I can tell you)<br>
    <br>
    A small transaction fee is a small price to pay for a human being
    who will help you when something goes wrong.<br>
    <br>
    Pam<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
      Chestek Legal<br>
      300 Fayetteville Street<br>
      Unit 2492<br>
      Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
      (919) 800-8033<br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.chesteklegal.com">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
      <br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/21/2023 4:29 PM, Carl Oppedahl
      via E-trademarks wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:9367c046-4b73-4443-8bc2-c87df9672075@oppedahl.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <p>Let me give one example of how I think the Wise system has
        helped me with client billing and accounting issues.</p>
      <p>An invoice comes in from foreign counsel in (let's say)
        Poland.  The invoice asks us to pay some number of Euros (€). 
        So I go into Wise and I click to see the last time that I paid
        money to that Polish firm.  And there is a button to "send
        again".  (This means that if I somehow had avoided screwing up
        the IBAN and other recipient information in the past, then I
        don't need to worry about screwing it up this time.)  Of course
        the source of the funds is our US dollar balance with Wise.  I
        click around and I get to pick:</p>
      <ul>
        <li>I could pick to send some exact number of USD, in which case
          the number of € that the Polish firm receives might be bigger
          or smaller depending on currency exchange rates.</li>
        <li>I could pick that I want the Polish firm to receive some
          exact number of €.  In that case, the number of USD that would
          get deducted from our US dollar balance might be more or less,
          depending on exchange rates.</li>
      </ul>
      <p>I choose the latter path because I want the Polish firm to be
        paid the exact number of € that is the amount of their invoice. 
        I go to the invoice and copy the number of €, let's say it is
        €916.  The Wise system tells me that to make this happen, I will
        be using 987.38 USD of my USD balance.  I keep clicking and
        eventually it goes through.</p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p>Oh and by the way the fee charged to me for the money transfer
        is zero because ... wait for it ... the Polish firm also uses
        Wise.  And they will not need to incur any fee to receive the
        money because ... our firm and their firm are both using Wise. 
        Oh, and they receive the money within seconds.</p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p>Back to my main point.  Our accounts-receivable department
        needs to bill our client (which is located in the US) in USD. 
        So our accounts-receivable department wants to know just
        exactly, down to the penny, how many USD were involved.  The
        point here is I can tell them in real time that it was 987.38
        USD, not a penny more, not a penny less.  We can bill the client
        essentially instantly.</p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p>Second example.  Suppose our client is the kind of client where
        we want our (US-based) client to advance the funds to us (in
        USD), before we authorize the foreign firm to carry out the
        work.  What we would prefer is that we ask our client for just
        exactly the right number of USD, not too high, not too low.  And
        the foreign firm already told us it will cost (let's say) €916
        to do the task.</p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p>And we know that there is a time gap.  We might be authorizing
        the foreign work a month from now.  But we need to know right
        now exactly how many USD to ask the client to advance to us. 
        The exchange rate will be different today than it will be for a
        month from now.  And our accounting department will go nuts if
        we ask for an advance, and a month from now it turns out the
        advance was not exactly the same.  A true-up would be needed and
        our accounting department hates that.  Plus the money was going
        into and out of our escrow account and the true-up makes it even
        more complicated.</p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p>So what we do is, we use Wise to convert some of our USD into
        the foreign currency involved (in this case €).  We have a €
        balance with Wise, and we do what it takes to add €916 to our
        Euro balance.  And we know, right now, exactly how many USD were
        required to make that happen.  So we can ask the client to
        advance that number of USD (plus, if needed, the fee for the
        wire transfer itself, which is completely predictable down to
        the penny).   And later when we pay the foreign counsel, we send
        that exact €916 that we have been holding in our € balance for
        these weeks.</p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p>No need for a true-up later because of changes in the $-and-€
        exchange rate.  <br>
      </p>
      <p>And we know exactly how much money got charged for converting
        the $ to €.</p>
      <p>So we never need to do true-ups.</p>
      <p>Years ago we were constantly having to do true-ups, back when
        we were using Reusch and then when we were using Travelex and
        then when we were using Afex.  Oh and heaven forbid for a while
        we were actually using our local bricks-and-mortar bank for the
        foreign money transfers (Wells Fargo).  Boy that was a big
        mistake to use our ordinary bank.  Anyway, we were constantly
        having to do true-ups because invariably when we quoted to the
        client how many USD the task was going to cost, to do something
        in a foreign country in Euros, the exchange rate would have
        later changed.</p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p>Yet another thing is that if we want, we can accept payments
        from our European colleagues in Euros or pounds sterling or
        Polish Zlotys.  We have bank details that permit us to receive
        those currencies.<br>
      </p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/21/2023 4:57 PM, Scott Nielson
        via Patentpractice wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:SJ0PR11MB6575174CE5C65653B954FF65B0BBA@SJ0PR11MB6575.namprd11.prod.outlook.com">
        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
          charset=UTF-8">
        <style type="text/css" style="display:none;">P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}</style>
        <div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: "Aptos
          Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif;
          font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> How does Wise help
          large firm accounting departments in the way you describe? As
          someone who has all those issues, especially the wire transfer
          fees, I'm interested in knowing how you avoid them.</div>
        <div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: "Aptos
          Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif;
          font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
        </div>
        <div id="Signature">
          <p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
            font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos
              Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService,
              serif; color: rgb(31, 56, 100);"><b>Scott Nielson</b></span></p>
          <p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
            font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos
              Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService,
              serif; color: black;">801-660-4400</span></p>
        </div>
        <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
        <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
            face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
            Patentpractice <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
              href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
            on behalf of Orvis via Patentpractice <a
              class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
              href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
            <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 21, 2023 4:52 PM<br>
            <b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for
            laypersons to seek legal advice. <a
              class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
              href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
            <b>Cc:</b> Orvis <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
              href="mailto:orvispc@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><orvispc@gmail.com></a>;
            Dineen Wasylik <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
              href="mailto:dineen@wasylik.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><dineen@wasylik.net></a>;
            For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to
            seek legal advice. <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
              href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] [E-trademarks] Good,
            Inexpensire service for bank wire payments</font>
          <div> </div>
        </div>
        <div>
          <div style="font-family:sans-serif"><span dir="ltr"
              style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Wise is also great
              for those at large firms who's accounting department says
              they cannot figure out how to deliver a dollar certain to
              a recipient and then tells you that you need to figure out
              conversions and wire transfer fees along the way. </span>
            <br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif">
              <p>Nov 21, 2023 6:09:23 PM Richard Schafer via
                Patentpractice <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                  href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a>:</p>
            </div>
            <blockquote style="margin:0; word-wrap:break-word;
              border-left:3px solid #ccc; padding-left:10px"
              lang="EN-US">
              <div class="x_WordSection1" style="">
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                  font-size:11pt;
                  font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <span
                    style="color:#1F497D; font-size:12.0pt;
                    font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif">Wise
                    has been a godsend for my solo practice. Highly
                    recommended.</span></p>
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                  font-size:11pt;
                  font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <span
                    style="color:#1F497D; font-size:12.0pt;
                    font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif"></span></p>
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                  font-size:11pt;
                  font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <span
                    style="color:#1F497D; font-size:12.0pt;
                    font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif">Best
                    regards,<br>
                    <b>Richard A. Schafer | Schafer IP Law</b></span><span
                    style="color:#1F497D; font-size:12.0pt;
                    font-family:"Garamond",serif"><br>
                  </span><span style="color:#1F497D; font-size:12.0pt;
                    font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif">P.O.
                    Box 230081 | Houston, TX 77223<br>
                    M: 832.283.6564 | </span><span
                    style="color:#1F497D; font-size:12.0pt;
                    font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif"><a
                      href="mailto:richard@schafer-ip.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">richard@schafer-ip.com</span></a></span></p>
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                  font-size:11pt;
                  font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <span
                    style="color:#1F497D; font-size:12.0pt;
                    font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif"></span></p>
                <div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;
                  padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                  <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                    font-size:11pt;
                    font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <b>From:</b>
                    E-trademarks <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                      href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"><e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
                    <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dineen Wasylik via E-trademarks<br>
                    <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 21, 2023 11:14 AM<br>
                    <b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not
                    for laypersons to seek legal advice. <a
                      class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                      href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
                    <b>Cc:</b> Dineen Wasylik <a
                      class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                      href="mailto:dineen@wasylik.net"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"><dineen@wasylik.net></a>;
                    <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated
                      moz-txt-link-freetext"
                      href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
                    <b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Good, Inexpensire
                    service for bank wire payments</p>
                </div>
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                  font-size:11pt;
                  font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </p>
                <div>
                  <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                    font-size:11pt;
                    font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> I agree
                    with Carlk, though I think they now call it just
                    "wise" but <a href="http://wise.com/"
                      originalsrc="http://wise.com/"
shash="fCCmTXVHR+V5HqVCn7p+X1zfxsWNilMcR+5Nyb1VdVqUbgakEzI2jhl/nAR9bWW1jJ0t3g+PsAsHcFCGCmkAXUCGdK5Yx5s4BxNvQANGT1R4qdqCf2e4bhLDgbYiMUncQKDeUQn9u/bj9myUd2tfP0fcoJQVbBnXWjDOrqOLNcg="
                      moz-do-not-send="true"> wise.com</a> is what I
                    have based on recommendations from other
                    practitioners.  It is easy and much less expensive
                    than bank-based wires.  It handles
                    currency conversion much better than my bank folks
                    did, too.</p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                      font-size:11pt;
                      font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                      font-size:11pt;
                      font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Best,</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                      font-size:11pt;
                      font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
                      Dineen</p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                  font-size:11pt;
                  font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </p>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                      font-size:11pt;
                      font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> On
                      Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 5:58 AM Carl Oppedahl via
                      E-trademarks <<a
                        href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
                      wrote:</p>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote style="border:none; margin-left:4.8pt;
                    padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; border-left:solid #CCCCCC
                    1.0pt; margin-right:0in">
                    <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;
                      font-size:11pt;
                      font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> See <br>
                      <a
href="https://blog.oppedahl.com/eventually-every-patent-and-trademark-firm-will-have-a-transferwise-account/"
originalsrc="https://blog.oppedahl.com/eventually-every-patent-and-trademark-firm-will-have-a-transferwise-account/"
shash="WhiiyD66lVhKzRFGpLx0krvGZJKYWuNmGq+D1HsGRUWZo+pu05nzigV3MuLeZlcPBqFbHUqY7Mut3Gy8495rakcbh0xdcf16p5wuuGpJDasEwFJ2Hlfg5sTFK96496dVvbKQQec1FzQhGXyC6QrRGHh6AJ7FcxOxikpTNAn4vcg="
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://blog.oppedahl.com/eventually-every-patent-and-trademark-firm-will-have-a-transferwise-account/</a><br>
                      <br>
                      On 11/20/2023 10:53 PM, voyer--- via E-trademarks
                      wrote:<br>
                      > A year or maybe more ago, there was elist
                      discussion of a good, inexpensive service for bank
                      wire services.<br>
                      > At least internationally, perhaps also
                      domestic.  My saved copy is now hiding from me.<br>
                      > Would appreciate contact info for that
                      service, and it is stlil a good recommendation.
                      Thanks,<br>
                      ><br>
                      > Daniel Kegan *  847-452-2599<br>
                      > Baron Harris Healey, Of Counsel<br>
                      > <<a href="mailto:DKegan@BHHLawFirm.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">DKegan@BHHLawFirm.com</a>><br>
                      > <<a href="http://www.bhhlawfirm.com/"
                        originalsrc="http://www.bhhlawfirm.com/"
shash="iyu7t2DNzdbrx06ffirLrnTzXF+TMHeZMqGosWcPb/t+bQLChzQiWMA+/r+LPdE+sYocNJbndd/DjiyiLyFTswUPFDkXMza3SIYrI1Us04AC1PVOjJml73lxDWYh5FJKkbeSjl5uFKJb5rp46kNVDFqFWJbwkbyBQuC/NGgkDxs="
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.BHHLawFirm.com</a>><br>
                      > Balanced Counsel for Smart Clients®<br>
                      > 29 Kendal Dr<br>
                      > Kennett Square PA 19348-2323 USA<br>
                      -- <br>
                      E-trademarks mailing list<br>
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                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
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href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com"
originalsrc="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com"
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