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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Following-up on Alex's comments regarding wilfulness, the Ninth Circuit used to put great emphasis on "wilful" conduct in the context of awarding damages and attorneys fees. After the recent Supreme Court decision in Octane Fitness, the Ninth Circuit has backed away from that. Even before then, the Ninth Circuit looked at intent as intentionally trading on the goodwill of the plaintiff's mark, and it focused on the time of adoption. Simply getting a demand letter or even being aware of the plaintiff's mark is generally insufficient to prove intent or wilfulness. To my knowledge, the 9th Circuit has never subscribed to the view that getting a demand letter gives the defendant cooties such that they must stop using the mark.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Paul<br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div></div><div id="ydp8a88dd81yahoo_quoted_4347771277" class="ydp8a88dd81yahoo_quoted">
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On Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 02:52:39 PM PST, Alex Butterman via E-trademarks <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com> wrote:
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<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><a shape="rect" name="_Hlk494874294"></a><a shape="rect" name="_Hlk494874176"><span><font size="2" color="#4472c4" face="Arial" style="background-color: inherit;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#4472C4;">I agree with the aforementioned.
If your client still wants to be more proactive earlier-on and has evidence to support the 2d refusal that the examiner might not be likely to find and the client wants to pay for a Letter of Protest, that can still be filed to help ensure that the examiner
issues a final 2d refusal citing your client’s mark. </span></font></span></a></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><span><span><font size="2" color="#4472c4" face="Arial" style="background-color: inherit;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#4472C4;"> </span></font></span></span></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><span><span><font size="2" color="#4472c4" face="Arial" style="background-color: inherit;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#4472C4;">If sending a follow-up letter, you
could mention that the 2d refusal puts the applicant on notice and their use of the mark will therefore be considered willful, but I am not 100% certain that case law supports that and, if so, in what jurisdictions.
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<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><span><span><font size="2" color="#4472c4" face="Arial" style="background-color: inherit;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#4472C4;"> </span></font></span></span></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><span><span><font size="2" color="#4472c4" face="Arial" style="background-color: inherit;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#4472C4;">However, the value of any of the above
v. the value of saving those funds for an opposition or litigation is something for the client to consider, which is why Paul’s advice to let it play out may be the best.</span></font></span></span></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><span><span><font size="2" color="#4472c4" face="Arial" style="background-color: inherit;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#4472C4;"> </span></font></span></span></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><span><span><font size="2" color="#4472c4" face="Arial" style="background-color: inherit;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#4472C4;"> </span></font></span></span></p>
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<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><span><span><b><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;font-weight:bold;">Alex
Butterman</span></font></b></span></span></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><span><span><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial" style="background-color: inherit;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Partner<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">
</span></b></span></font></span></span><span></span><span></span><b><font size="3" color="#37428a" face="Avenir Next"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#37428A;font-weight:bold;"></span></font></b></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><b><font size="3" color="#37428a" face="Avenir Next"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#37428A;font-weight:bold;">DUNLAP </span></font></b><b><font size="3" color="#616a73" face="Avenir Next"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#616A73;font-weight:bold;">BENNETT </span></font></b><b><font size="3" color="#37428a" face="Avenir Next"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#37428A;font-weight:bold;">&
LUDWIG</span></font></b><font size="3" color="#4472c4"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#4472C4;"></span></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:3.0pt;" class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><i><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;font-style:italic;">211 Church St., SE; Leesburg, VA 20175</span></font></i></p>
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– </span></font><font color="#4472c4"><span style="color:#4472C4;"><a shape="rect" href="https://www.dbllawyers.com/attorney/alex-butterman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><b><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:blue;font-weight:bold;">BIO</span></font></b></a></span></font></p>
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<div id="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326yqtfd02258" class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326yqt4136109321"><p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold;">From:</span></font></b> E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>reidl--- via E-trademarks<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, December 31, 2023 04:13 PM<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> 'For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.' <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> reidl@sbcglobal.net<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [EXT] Re: [E-trademarks] No response to letter to attorney</p>
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<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Happy New Year from Oz, Jessica.</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Different lawyers respond to demand letters differently. It all depends on the circumstances. Without knowing any of the details, one possible scenario is that the lawyer has
looked at the situation and concluded that your client will not (or cannot afford to) sue to stop use. So, you are being ignored. I’ve done this. In one case the other side sends and annual letter that I ignore; been going on for about 8 years. Can you
spell l-a-c-h-e-s? (They do not have a case and I told them so in response to their initial letter). Another scenario might be that the applicant is not all that keen on using the mark so it does not want to invest in a letter war (or litigation). Another
might be that the lawyer is a jerk.</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">I’d let it play out and keep an eye out for use. If the application is ultimately refused, then your client is looking at a potential lawsuit. If the application is published,
then it is looking at an opposition (and, for the sound of it, perhaps a default).</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Paul</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Paul W. Reidl</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Dickenson, Peatman & Fogarty</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">1455 1st St #301</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Napa, CA 94559</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">707-261-7010 x 7210</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:preidl@dpf-law.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">preidl@dpf-law.com</a></span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">@TMGuy</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
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<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold;">From:</span></font></b> E-trademarks <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jessica R. Friedman via E-trademarks<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, December 31, 2023 12:34 PM<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Jessica R. Friedman <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jrfriedman@litproplaw.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [E-trademarks] No response to letter to attorney</p>
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<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
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<font size="2" color="#1f3864" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">I sent a letter to an attorney whose client has ITU applications pending that conflict with my client’s registered mark. The PTO cited my client’s
registration in an OA against the applications, but the attorney missed the response deadline and filed a petition to revive which has just been granted.
</span></font></li></ul>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f3864" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F3864;"> </span></font></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in;" type="disc"><li style="color:#1F3864;margin-left:0in;" class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoListParagraph">
<font size="2" color="#1f3864" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">My letter detailed likelihood of confusion, asked that they drop the applications and not use the mark, and requested a response by 12/29. I sent it
only via Outlook (overnight was not an option). Outlook sent a delivery receipt, but I have not received a reply.
</span></font></li></ul>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f3864" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F3864;"> </span></font></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in;" type="disc"><li style="color:#1F3864;margin-left:0in;" class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoListParagraph">
<font size="2" color="#1f3864" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">This has never happened in my experience, but I also haven’t sent such a letter for a while. Is this par for the course now? What should the next step
be? (We don’t need to take immediate action w/r/t the applications – the PTO may issue a final refusal and they may abandon the applications – but obviously, we don’t want them to start to use the mark.)</span></font></li></ul>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f3864" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F3864;"> </span></font></p>
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<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="#003366" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#003366;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="#003366" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#003366;">Jessica R. Friedman</span></font><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;color:black;"></span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="#003366" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#003366;">Attorney at Law</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="#003366" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#003366;">300 East 59 Street, Ste. 2406</span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="#003366" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#003366;">New York, NY 10022</span></font><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-family:New serif;color:black;"></span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="#003366" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#003366;">Phone: 212-220-0900</span></font><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-family:New serif;color:black;"></span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="#003366" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#003366;">Cell: 917-647-1884</span></font><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-family:New serif;color:black;"></span></font></p>
<p class="ydp8a88dd81yiv6001140326MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="#003366" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#003366;">E-mail:</span></font><font size="1" color="blue" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:blue;"> </span></font><a shape="rect" href="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com" title="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font size="1" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">jrfriedman@litproplaw.com</span></font></a><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-family:New serif;color:black;"></span></font></p>
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