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<p>And I suppose each of these submissions, successful or not,
incurred yet another $45 government fee.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/2/2024 10:59 AM, Janet
Satterthwaite via E-trademarks wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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I had this happen recently where the assignment was drafted
under Russian law in in Russian translated in to English, and
did not have the magic word "goodwill" so it was bounced the
same way. There was no way we could go back and get a revised
agreement due to geopolitics.</div>
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<br>
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I believe I posed the answer at the time, in October 2023, but
here is an updated version from memory.</div>
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<br>
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<div
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I called and asked how to I submit a response to this arguing
that while the magic word is not there, it is clear that the
document as a whole does effectively transfer the goodwill.</div>
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<br>
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<div
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I was told to just resubmit it without any argument (there is
no place to enter any argument) and that she would alert the
Examiner. This failed the first time b/c she didn't get to the
Examiner in time, but then we did it again and it was accepted
with a verbal caution that we are aware that there is a risk
that the assignment is not proper.</div>
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<br>
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<span
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Satterthwaite</b></span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(128, 128, 128);">|</span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Partner/
Chair, Trademark Practice|Potomac Law Group, PLLC</span></p>
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<span
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Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 1025 </span></p>
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<span
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D.C. 20006</span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
E-trademarks <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
on behalf of Carl Oppedahl via E-trademarks
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 2, 2024 12:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for
laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Carl Oppedahl <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:carl@oppedahl.com"><carl@oppedahl.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] paralegals that think they
are smarter than lawyers</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
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<p>Not to disagree with you or with David, but I think one of
my main points was simply the USPTO behaving in a way that
contradicts its own public statement of what its behavior is
supposed to be.</p>
<p>The public statement is that the USPTO does not carry out
"a determination of the legality of the transaction" and
does not "verify the validity of the information" in the
document. Indeed if the USPTO were to carry out such
"legality" and "validity" analysis, it seems to me the USPTO
would be wrong to put anyone but a law school graduate onto
the task. For the USPTO to delegate this analysis to
someone whose education is limited to a two-year community
college program seems wrong.</p>
<p>And setting aside whether it is right or wrong to entrust
this analysis to someone who never set foot in a law school,
the plain fact is that the USPTO expressly says it doesn't
and won't do such analysis. As such, it strikes me as wrong
for the USPTO to pursue a secret policy of doing such
analysis when it says it doesn't and won't.</p>
<p>And it's wrong for the USPTO to have its non-lawyer
telephone representative offering to send out an assignment
that she says will be legally effective given that in her
view the assignment that we e-filed was not legally
effective. All of this based, as she condescendingly
explained, on checking to see whether the word "goodwill"
did or did not appear in the document. No other analysis
was needed, as she explained things. Merely checking for
the presence or absence of one magic word was all that she
needed to do, she explained.<br>
</p>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 1/2/2024 10:34 AM, Katherine
Markert via E-trademarks wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">David,
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I
never professed to be an administrative law expert,
nor do I think you were suggesting that I proclaimed
myself as such.
</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
I would appreciate you clarifying some of your
response, for my own edification.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Are
you saying that the USPTO’s practice, of verifying
that the cover sheet and underlying document are
consistent, runs afoul of administrative law?
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If
you view it as acceptable for the USPTO to verify the
cover sheet and underlying document (but don’t like
the current procedure of merely looking for the term
“goodwill”), what is a more suitable way for the PTO’s
paralegals to verify consistency of the cover sheet
and underlying document in view of the administrative
law angle?
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thanks</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt; color:#385623">Katie
Markert</span></b></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt">Partner</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:4.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span
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& Cominolli PLLC</span></b></p>
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style="font-size:8.0pt; color:#385623">Phone:</span></b><span
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</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt">585-504-2507
</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> E-trademarks <a
class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Boundy via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 2, 2024 12:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not
for laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Boundy <a
class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] paralegals that
think they are smarter than lawyers</p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">What would happen if you just
refile with no cover explanation? the next person
to pick it up may take the TMEP at face value.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">I disagree with Katherine
Market's reading of TMEP on administrative law
grounds. I agree with her to the extent that use
fo the magic word "goodwill" is better safe than
sorry. But I agree with Carl that it's the
practitioner's job to make the legal conclusion. In
my view a reading of TMEP 503.01 through the lens of
the administrative law tells the PTO's paralegals
not to make the legal determination for themselves
or to second guess a practitioner.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 11:40 AM
Carl Oppedahl via E-trademarks <<a
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none; border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>I am baffled at a recent interaction with the
USPTO's Assignment Division. <br>
<br>
I have seen the Assignment Division cheerfully and
seemingly unquestioningly record all manner of
documents, some of which had less actual
substantive legal content than an image scan of a
used facial tissue. Such unquestioning
recordation of documents is completely consistent
with what the USPTO says at <a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.uspto.gov_learning-2Dand-2Dresources_transferring-2Downership-2Dassignments-2Dfaqs-23type-2Dbrowse-2Dfaqs-5F160521&d=DwMDaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=BD_ODyCnGyM4QYkJS4ogIYzIigAHSpBLLoEgzCd9OOE&m=3UDrs-Y0MgSEDLn2eoQnSytbGX-sth09chvJLsh9Bvyp7vjOFa9kyT5rsob292mX&s=VmCTEITsq1TQAXplyvXaj8FKSB3QQNaXuyj-17kH6YM&e="
target="_blank" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/transferring-ownership-assignments-faqs#type-browse-faqs_160521</a>
:</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>The office simply puts the information on the
public record and does not verify the validity
of the information. Recordation is a ministerial
function. The office neither makes a
determination of the legality of the transaction
nor the right of the submitting party to take
the action. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Recently I e-filed a trademark assignment
document through ETAS. What came back was a
Notice of Non-Recordation. The excuse given for
bouncing the assignment document is a form
paragraph:</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>The assignment document submitted for recording
is not acceptable. The statement for the
Goodwill of the business was omitted. 15 USC §
1060(a)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>A click on LinkedIn indicates that the sole
educational credential of the signer of the Notice
is a two-year stint at Prince George's Community
College.</p>
<p>I will mention that the signer of the Notice is
technically correct that the magic word "goodwill"
is not recited in the assignment document.
Suffice it to say that the words recited in the
document do absolutely and without doubt convey
the goodwill despite the magic word not having
been recited. (The document was drafted by
someone who's not me, and it was executed prior to
my firm having been asked to handle this
recordation.)
</p>
<p>I phoned up the Assignment Division reaching a
different person than the signer of the Notice.
She confidently affirmed the propriety of the
bounce, lecturing me that the word "goodwill"
simply must appear in the document or it will not
legally achieve the intended change of ownership.
Doubling down, she then offered to email to me an
exemplary assignment document that she said would
be legally effective.</p>
<p>Yes, we have unauthorized practice of law going
on here at the USPTO.</p>
<p>I am torn between two possible ways of dealing
with this bounce from the Assignment Division.</p>
<p>One choice would be to e-file a "resubmission"
with a statement directed to the fact that the
words recited do in fact convey the goodwill even
if the magic word "goodwill" is not recited. My
guess, based upon what the telephone
representative said, is that this would lead to a
Reel and Frame Number. But of course this would
put a "kick me" sign on the trademark rights.
This would preserve in perpetuity the legal
opinion by the USPTO about what was supposedly not
conveyed, and any adversary in litigation would
seize upon this in an argument that the trademark
went abandoned upon the execution of the
document. Never mind that the USPTO's legal
opinion came from someone with no more than a
two-year credential from a community college.</p>
<p>Another choice would be to spend hours trying to
craft some sort of cleanup document for signature
by the same people who signed the existing
assignment document. The cleanup document might
include "confirmatory" language confirming that of
course the string of words that conveyed the
goodwill really did convey the goodwill. It might
include
<i>nunc pro tunc</i> language. It might include
quitclaim language. But of course this would
likewise put a "kick me" sign on the trademark
rights. This would preserve in perpetuity a messy
cleanup document.</p>
<p>Either path requires me to spend professional
time dealing with the bounce, time that I probably
cannot bill to the client.</p>
<p>None of this fuss and bother would have been
needed if the person signing the bounce notice had
followed the USPTO's promise not to " verify the
validity" of the document and the USPTO's promise
not to "make a determination of the legality of
the transaction".</p>
<p> </p>
</div>
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