<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 136, 42);">>>
</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: "Segoe UI", "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; color: rgb(12, 136, 42); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-weight: 400;">So
apparently, the GS3 search only finds records where the IC is the primary class and not where the US class is the primary class.</span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">That is my conclusion, plus that emphasizes that the search system
<b><u>must have a full record display</u></b>, preferably with the search terms </span>
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0);"><b><i>highlighted</i></b></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> so
that there's no confusion regarding what was loaded to the search system and to help identify the key terms searched. Currently, we are trying to guess the exact syntax of GS/GS2/GS3 entries in the search system. We shouldn't have to guess - it should be
fully exposed in the full record display, enforcing the philosophy <b><i>what you see is what you search</i></b><i>.
</i> The necessity of switching to TSDR to see what we need to search turns the construction of effective searches into a guessing game. (Sound familiar? I raised this concern earlier for the SA - Status - search field, as we really do NOT know what keywords/phrases
to search from the online hint </span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);"><i>contains a status such as registered, "published for opposition\u201d, or \u201cnew application.\u201d
</i></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Then again, a full record display within the search system has been a common theme in this trademark discussion group.)</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 136, 42);"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 136, 42);">>>
</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; color: rgb(12, 136, 42); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-weight: 400;">And
I'm confused. Why does the same search using GS or GS2 not find the </span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; color: rgb(12, 136, 42); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><b>72457899
</b></span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; color: rgb(12, 136, 42); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-weight: 400;">record,
regardless of whether 009 or 021 is specified in the search? Both of them are supposed to contain the IC and the U.S. class. Is the difference that GS3 prepends the primary class to the goods and services text, while GS and GS2 include the IC and U.S. class
in the search, but not as part of the same string as the goods and services?</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-weight: 400;"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Exactly! Using
</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; color: rgb(12, 136, 42);"><b>72457899</b></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> as
an example, TSDR shows the following GS text referenced by the </span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><b>GS3:/.*009.*INTEGRATED.CIRCUITS.*/
AND LD:true AND SN:72*</b></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> search.</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">For:\u2002\u2002INTEGRATED CIRCUITS [ AND REGISTERS ] International Class(es):\u2002009\u2002\u2002\u2002U.S Class(es): 021 - Primary
Class</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">Class Status: ACTIVE Basis:\u20021(a) First Use: Jul. 31, 1971 Use in Commerce: Aug. 30, 1971</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Unfortunately, we do not know which portions of that TSDR text were included in the search system, what portions were excluded, and what
delimiters (if any) were added, plus there's the assumption that dates were likely converted to the YYYYMMDD format for the
<i>use date</i> fields. I'm guessing the flags </span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; color: rgb(12, 100, 192); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-weight: 400;">Primary Class</span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> and
</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; color: rgb(12, 100, 192); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-weight: 400;">Class Status:\u2002ACTIVE</span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> were
excluded from the search system, but (i) we shouldn't have to guess and (ii) all relevant flags should be preserved in the search system with appropriate delimiters, versus the current ambiguity that has created the confusion for searching.</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Actually, the search system does provide a pop-up window for
</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; color: rgb(12, 136, 42);"><b>72457899</b></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> relative
to the GS entry for that search, namely</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">Goods and services for 72457899</span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">Class 009</span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">US 021</span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">G & S: US 021: INTEGRATED CIRCUITS [ AND REGISTERS ].</span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">Class 009</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">...</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">but that pop-up window does not eliminate my confusion over what is stored in the search system (plus some delimiters between key terms
probably would assist in constructing effective searches).</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Thank you, Lara, for sharing the challenging search syntax. Thanks to the others who have contributed to the discussion. Thank you in
advance, USPTO lurkers, for any efforts to help resolve our confusion.</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="Signature">
<div style="text-align: center; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Happy Trademarking,</div>
<div style="text-align: center; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Ken Boone</div>
</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Richard Schafer via E-trademarks <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 9, 2024 6:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Richard Schafer <richard@schafer-ip.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Help on quick, down, and dirty learning the new advanced search features</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size: 11pt;">So apparently, the GS3 search only finds records where the IC is the primary class and not where the US class is the primary class.<br>
<br>
And I'm confused. Why does the same search using GS or GS2 not find the 72457899 record, regardless of whether 009 or 021 is specified in the search? Both of them are supposed to contain the IC and the U.S. class. Is the difference that GS3 prepends the primary
class to the goods and services text, while GS and GS2 include the IC and U.S. class in the search, but not as part of the same string as the goods and services?<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Richard A. Schafer | Schafer IP Law<br>
P.O. Box 230081 | Houston, TX 77223<br>
M: 832.283.6564 | richard@schafer-ip.com<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> On Behalf Of Neil R. Ormos via E-trademarks<br>
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 2:41 PM<br>
To: E-trademarks Mailing List <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Cc: Neil R. Ormos <ormos-lists@ormos.org><br>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] Help on quick, down, and dirty learning the new advanced search features<br>
<br>
Ken Boone via E-trademarks wrote:<br>
<br>
> A new search theory: the search syntax GS3:/.*009.*widget.*/ is<br>
> effective for retrieving all records with the single term widget in<br>
> class 009.<br>
<br>
> My immediate reaction: Where did the search field GS3 come from? I<br>
> recalled the GS2 search field but not the GS3 search field. Checking<br>
> the online help, following are the relevant list of search fields.<br>
> [...]<br>
<br>
> [...] Another example is<br>
><br>
> GS3:/.*009.*INTEGRATED.CIRCUITS.*/ AND LD:true AND SN:72*<br>
><br>
> for which I expected to see 72457899 among the hits. Nope. [...]<br>
<br>
> That's 3 examples with specific serial numbers that were not included<br>
> in the search results.<br>
> So what am I doing wrong? Or have I presented 3 counter examples to<br>
> that search theory?<br>
<br>
Compare the results from<br>
<br>
GS3:/.*009.*integrated.circuit.*/ AND LD:true AND SN:72*<br>
<br>
with<br>
<br>
GS3:/.*021.*integrated.circuit.*/ AND LD:true AND SN:72*<br>
<br>
which latter set does include 72457899. <br>
<br>
In the single result for the 009 search, "009" is contained in the G & S field. <br>
<br>
In the results for the 021 search, "021" is contained in the G & S fields, but "009" is not. <br>
<br>
Maybe we need to ask the PTO to add another derivative index, say "GS4", that, for each class, contains GS3, with the international class code prepended.<br>
<br>
It would also be nice if the PTO would kindly clarify whether search terms between slashes are interpreted as anchored POSIX regular expressions.<br>
<br>
--<br>
E-trademarks mailing list<br>
E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com<br>
<a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA4464803d-4bd9-da45-fcda-bb3be890a5be" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<br>
--<br>
E-trademarks mailing list<br>
E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com<br>
<a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA2e65c099-2245-07f8-2462-65cce663cc55" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com</a></span></div>
</body>
</html>