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<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I got a refusal for a co-sharing office space and I had the client provide a sworn declaration that it was a real office where they really went to conduct business.</div>
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Pointless busywork.</div>
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This is just so absurd.</div>
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I think having David Boundy as my law partner is influencing (and educating) my increasing intolerance of the USPTO's interpretation of admin law.</div>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(102, 102, 153);"><b>Janet F. Satterthwaite</b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(128, 128, 128);">|</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Partner/ Chair, Trademark
Practice|Potomac Law Group, PLLC</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(124, 134, 154); background-color: white;">1717 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 1025 </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(124, 134, 154); background-color: white;">Washington, D.C. 20006</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(124, 134, 154); background-color: white;">202-486-1578</span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Ken Liu via E-trademarks <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 6, 2024 2:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carl Oppedahl <carl@oppedahl.com>; For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ken Liu <kel@gg-law.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Virtual mailbox address</span>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: red;"><b>WARNING:</b></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> External email, do not click on links or open attachments
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<div style="direction: ltr;"><span style="font-family: "Segoe UI", "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I understand co-sharing offices would suffice as real offices, but they are quite expensive
for many start-up companies and nonprofits, so many of which are completely virtual today.</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr" id="x_divRplyFwdMsg"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Richrd Straussman via E-trademarks <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 6, 2024 12:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carl Oppedahl <carl@oppedahl.com>; For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Richrd Straussman <rstraussman@weitzmanip.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Virtual mailbox address</span>
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<div style="direction: ltr;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">What if the apartment is owned by an owner of the CMRA and those people become a "timeshare" sublessee entitling them to "occasional
use" of the apartment? The owner then drags the mail delivered to the apartment for the sublessees to their CMRA where the sublessees also each have a box and puts it in the respective sublessee's box.<br>
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Seems to me, as the saying goes, where there is a will there are relatives.<br>
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<div style="direction: ltr;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">On 2/6/2024 12:31 PM, Carl Oppedahl wrote:</span></div>
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<p style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">That dog won't hunt.</span></p>
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<p style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">To be able to become a commercial mail receiving agency, you have to fill out a form and become accredited
with the USPS as a provider of CMRA services. At which point you have to say what address you are using to receive the mail on behalf of others. At which point anybody who does a lookup for the zip code for that address will see a "Y" in the CMRA field.
And then the Trademark Office will figure out that the residential apartment is being used as a mail drop, and you are back looking at an Office Action refusing registration because the applicant failed to reveal where they sleep at night.</span></p>
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<div style="direction: ltr;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">On 2/6/2024 10:21 AM, Richrd Straussman via E-trademarks wrote:</span></div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I am stunned that no commercial mail forwarding business has bought a residential apartment above/near their location so that people
can have a fictitious residential address people to use for mail forwarding.<br>
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<div style="direction: ltr;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">On 2/6/2024 12:00 PM, Janet Satterthwaite via E-trademarks wrote:</span></div>
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I'm going to start doing that too, or just ask the client to confirm when we provide the proposed details for an application. </div>
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But isn't it tiresome that as they are taking 9-10 months to get to applications they are wasting time searching for whether the client used a mail drop address. Roll On federal Circuit and Strike this down!!</div>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(102, 102, 153);"><b>Janet F. Satterthwaite</b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(128, 128, 128);">|</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Partner/ Chair, Trademark
Practice|Potomac Law Group, PLLC</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(124, 134, 154); background-color: white;">1717 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 1025 </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(124, 134, 154); background-color: white;">Washington, D.C. 20006</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(124, 134, 154); background-color: white;">202-486-1578</span></p>
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<div dir="ltr" id="x_x_divRplyFwdMsg"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Dineen Wasylik
<a href="mailto:dineen@wasylik.net" id="OWAf35aef57-389a-200c-2415-54f9f182a094" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E x_OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly">
<dineen@wasylik.net></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 6, 2024 11:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA9a7d64ea-1622-c867-1f5f-deda04225553" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E x_OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly">
<e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Janet Satterthwaite <a href="mailto:jsatterthwaite@potomaclaw.com" id="OWA69ccd5be-8b3d-acb0-1043-4e1d52c8fc33" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E x_OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly">
<jsatterthwaite@potomaclaw.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Virtual mailbox address</span>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: red;"><b>WARNING:</b></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> External email, do not click on links or open attachments
unless you recognize the sender’s full email address and expect the attachments.</span></p>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I've added to my procedures that we Google Map the address the client gives/found in the Corporate database so that we can avoid that.
The examiners are definitely doing so.</span></div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Janet Satterthwaite via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA441693a7-1dff-c7a8-63fd-2ce6e77da570" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-freetext x_OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:</span></div>
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I just got a refusal for an address which turned our to be a UPS store. (client never mentioned that.)</div>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(102, 102, 153);"><b>Janet F. Satterthwaite</b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(128, 128, 128);">|</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Partner/ Chair, Trademark
Practice|Potomac Law Group, PLLC</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(36, 36, 36);">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(124, 134, 154); background-color: white;">1717 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 1025 </span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(36, 36, 36);">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(124, 134, 154); background-color: white;">Washington, D.C. 20006</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(36, 36, 36);">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(124, 134, 154); background-color: white;">202-486-1578</span></p>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(128, 128, 128);"><a href="mailto:jsatterthwaite@potomaclaw.com" id="OWAe4da613e-ea45-951e-2901-b1da80f997e2" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-freetext x_OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly" style="margin: 0px;">jsatterthwaite@potomaclaw.com</a>|<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.potomaclaw.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=BD_ODyCnGyM4QYkJS4ogIYzIigAHSpBLLoEgzCd9OOE&m=22V1RQeWXihSZKhwLLBKYs1hXKSQgdKU3yhc0Nuc10gmjvL27ZlMd1IPh8k7RyMo&s=uu5cHS8UABRWDBu-roRaTtfvH6IRO8W6Pnfa9dyefqU&e=" id="OWAaa68f650-89cc-8c0e-2693-4bce06fd7670" class="x_OWAAutoLink" title="https://www.potomaclaw.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" data-loopstyle="linkonly" style="margin: 0px;">www.potomaclaw.com</a></span>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.potomaclaw.com_professionals-2Djanet-2Df-2Dsatterthwaite&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=BD_ODyCnGyM4QYkJS4ogIYzIigAHSpBLLoEgzCd9OOE&m=22V1RQeWXihSZKhwLLBKYs1hXKSQgdKU3yhc0Nuc10gmjvL27ZlMd1IPh8k7RyMo&s=icd2aEoZjxB0JW1BhFSw3Ld6zW7zSOK9Sol064RXm24&e=" id="OWAcbbf366a-2d3f-8491-89b4-d6daca095fdb" class="x_OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" data-loopstyle="linkonly">https://www.potomaclaw.com/professionals-janet-f-satterthwaite</a></span>
<div style="text-align: center; margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </span></div>
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><img id="x_x_x_m_-896866799566774379imageSelected0" width="10" height="10" style="width: 10px; height: 10px; margin: 0px;" src="https://ukwest1-mediap.svc.ms/transform/thumbnail?provider=spo&inputFormat=png&cs=fFNQTw&docid=https%3A%2F%2Fglobebpcrm.sharepoint.com%3A443%2F_api%2Fv2.0%2Fdrives%2Fb!TQZR2-2SPE2ijySca0RSk9GWpi3pTptJqpI2GM317RV0fn8ZfIBsSZ9rpY5T6aYk%2Fitems%2F0154SFYISYVY4G5S2PLJG32IIOCE4C4SJE%3Fversion%3DPublished&access_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJub25lIn0.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.bHVQeUl3TFNnejFLTVMzeERRV2JRaGhmK1luUHNSNmtwVG82cFgwZytVbz0&cTag=%22c%3A%7B6E38AE58-4FCB-4D5A-BD21-0E11382E4924%7D%2C2%22&encodeFailures=1&width=717&height=213&srcWidth=717&srcHeight=213"></span>
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<div dir="ltr" id="x_x_x_m_-896866799566774379divRplyFwdMsg"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA5dea2e05-0900-bb85-8be1-0fe6f17a5797" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-freetext x_OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
on behalf of Ken Liu via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA7990acd5-d8e4-1b67-f420-faed9ebd5c9e" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-freetext x_OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 6, 2024 11:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA5d0252b6-a927-8e5e-e460-871fed03b663" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-freetext x_OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly">
E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a> <<a href="mailto:E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWAf4ac5b2c-cc0d-acd5-bfb5-9f4654172458" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-freetext x_OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly">E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ken Liu <<a href="mailto:kel@gg-law.com" id="OWA13144b2e-6750-6816-9e92-4641eeecf267" class="x_x_moz-txt-link-freetext x_OWAAutoLink" data-loopstyle="linkonly">kel@gg-law.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [E-trademarks] Virtual mailbox address</span>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: red;"><b>WARNING:</b></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> External email, do not click on links or open attachments
unless you recognize the sender’s full email address and expect the attachments.</span></p>
<div style="direction: ltr; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Does the USPTO accept a commercial virtual mailbox address (not a PO Box) as a domicile address ("where you sleep at night")? </span></div>
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<div style="direction: ltr; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Sorry if this has been asked before. I thought there was a way to search archives of all past listserv messages, but it appears the archive
only goes back four months, is that right?</span></div>
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<div style="direction: ltr; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Best regards,</span></div>
<div id="x_x_x_m_-896866799566774379x_Signature">
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Ken</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Kenneth E. Liu</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">IP/Nonprofit Law</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Gammon & Grange, P.C.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">1945 Old Gallows Rd., Suite 650</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Tysons, VA 22182</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
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</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>Richard Straussman</b></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 128);"><b><br>
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</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"><b>Weitzman Law Offices, LLC</b><br>
<b>Intellectual Property Law</b><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(101, 101, 101);">425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401 (PLEASE NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(101, 101, 101);">Roseland, NJ 07068</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"><br>
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