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    But it's not feasible to do research in the Reading Room. So it
    would mean using a different service for research and then going to
    look it up in the Reading Room. But I would think that Westlaw,
    Lexis or the Reading Room should all be valid citations. But that
    also puts the TTAB in the position of themselves having to go back
    and forth between services.<br>
    <br>
    Pam<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
      Chestek Legal<br>
      300 Fayetteville St.<br>
      Unit 2492<br>
      Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
      919-800-8033<br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.chesteklegal.com">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
      <br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/13/2024 8:20 AM, Michael Brown via
      E-trademarks wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAHoOZLQYs+Mu5xqGuHUb48vVyckP1M-GS7oDCNufvRO8+KXk+g@mail.gmail.com">
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      <div dir="ltr">Am I missing something, but since the TTAB has its
        own opinions online, and provides the TTAB Reading Room with its
        decisions, why can't it accept references directly to its
        opinions without either USPQ or Westlaw cites? The decisions are
        in PDFs, so references to specific pages should be consistent.
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                      <div dir="ltr">Michael Brown<br>
                        Michael J Brown Law Office
                        <div>354 Eisenhower Parkway</div>
                        <div>Plaza I, 2nd Floor, Suite 2025
                          <div>Livingston, NJ  07039<br>
                            <br>
                            <div><a
                                href="mailto:michaeljbrownlaw@gmail.com"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">michaeljbrownlaw@gmail.com</a></div>
                            <div><a href="http://www.mjbrownlaw.com"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.mjbrownlaw.com</a> <br>
                              +1 973-577-6300  fax +1 973-577-6301<br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Google Voice +1 973-637-0358</div>
                          </div>
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      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at
          9:05 PM Oppedahl TM via E-trademarks <<a
            href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">My understanding is that the only online source
            of USPQ cites is Bloomberg. Bloomberg owns the Bureau of
            National Affairs who is the sole publisher of the USPQ.
            Cites to the USPQ are required by USPTO rules, so USPTO
            practice requires either purchase of Bloomberg or USPQ hard
            copies. Of course, both requirements are absurd because
            nobody has Bloomberg, everything is (or should be available)
            online, and these requirements don't stop anybody from
            practicing before the USPTO.
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Perhaps even more absurd is the solution suggested by
              the case that John blogged today. In place of the current
              requirement of subscribing to Bloomberg would be the
              requirement of subscribing to Westlaw. Not a solution.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Nick Santucci</div>
            <div>LZ Legal Services</div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at
              4:40 PM Dale Quisenberry via E-trademarks <<a
                href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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                <div lang="EN-GB">
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Are they excluding
                        LEXIS?</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">C. Dale
                            Quisenberry</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">Quisenberry
                            Law PLLC</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">13910
                            Champion Forest Drive, Suite 203</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">Houston,
                            Texas 77069</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">(832)
                            680.5000 (office)</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">(832)
                            680.1000 (mobile)</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">(832)
                            680.5555 (facsimile)</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><a
                              href="http://www.quisenberrylaw.com"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.quisenberrylaw.com</a></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(104,92,83)"
                              lang="EN-US">This email may contain
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                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                    <div
id="m_-8244057662107845208m_9217695173294141918mail-editor-reference-message-container">
                      <div>
                        <div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:black"
                                lang="EN-US">From:
                              </span></b><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:black"
                              lang="EN-US">E-trademarks <<a
href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
                              on behalf of reidl--- via E-trademarks
                              <<a
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
                              <b>Date: </b>Monday, 12 February 2024 at
                              5:48</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"
                              lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:black"
                              lang="EN-US">pm<br>
                              <b>To: </b>'For trademark practitioners.
                              This is not for laypersons to seek legal
                              advice.' <<a
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
                              <b>Cc: </b><a
                                href="mailto:reidl@sbcglobal.net"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">reidl@sbcglobal.net</a>
                              <<a href="mailto:reidl@sbcglobal.net"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">reidl@sbcglobal.net</a>><br>
                              <b>Subject: </b>[E-trademarks] John's
                              Post re the TTAB Jettisoning the USPQ</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">Dear
                              All,</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">I
                              don’t know how many of you caught up with
                              John’s TTABlog today about the potential
                              requirement that henceforth all citations
                              to the TTAB will need to be to WESTLAW. 
                              To me, this sounds like a solution in
                              search of a problem.</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">How
                              many people are they going to hire to
                              change all USPQ cites in the TBMP to
                              Westlaw cites?  And what about we old
                              timers who have extensive libraries of
                              USPQ citations?  I know, the USPQ has only
                              been published since 1929 but it is still
                              the standard.  And what about Federal
                              Courts who prefer the USPQ cites?  From my
                              standpoint, I’d have to write a brief
                              using USPQ cites and then have the client
                              pay an associate to translate that into
                              WESTLAW cites.  Why impose that cost on
                              us?</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">I have
                              an open mind but would really like to know
                              why the Board thinks that changing the
                              citation format it has used for its entire
                              existence is beneficial.  If I were still
                              a solo, and one who did not subscribe to
                              Westlaw, I would have to do so in order to
                              practice before the TTAB.  I know that the
                              universe of we folks who actually did
                              legal research using dusty books in
                              dwindling, but still ……</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">I
                              could understand saying that “for cases
                              decided from now on you must cite to
                              Westlaw” but to redo history makes no
                              sense for me. 
                            </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <h3><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                              lang="EN-US">That said, I am equally
                              bewildered by the MENSTRUATION CRUSTACEON
                              decision. 
                            </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></h3>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                                style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></b><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">Paul</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">Paul
                              W. Reidl</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">Dickenson,
                              Peatman & Fogarty</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">1455
                              1st St #301</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">Napa,
                              CA 94559</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">707-261-7010
                              x 7210</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"><a
                                href="mailto:preidl@dpf-law.com"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">preidl@dpf-law.com</a></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US">@TMGuy</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                                style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></b><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                                style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></b><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                -- <br>
                E-trademarks mailing list<br>
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              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
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