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Pam was talking about an expert witness, not legal authorities.
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<div>JLW </div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On 16 Feb 2024, at 3:25 PM, David Hricik <david@hricik.com> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"> “Evidence” is closed but not legal authorities you can find.
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<div>David Hricik</div>
<div>151 Country Creek Rd.</div>
<div>Macon, GA 31220</div>
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<div>On Feb 16, 2024, at 2:44 PM, John L. Welch via E-trademarks <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com> wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Seems to me that it’s too late to put in such evidence.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">The record is closed.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">JLW<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Garamond, serif;">John L. Welch<span style="color: rgb(14, 116, 174);"><o:p></o:p></span></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b><span>Counsel</span></b><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(36, 55, 69);"><o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(36, 55, 69);">Admitted to Practice:</span><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Massachusetts, New York,
and Washington, DC<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span><a href="mailto:jwelch@WolfGreenfield.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">jwelch<span lang="FR-CA">@WolfGreenfield.com</span></a></span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(14, 116, 174);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Pamela Chestek via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, February 16, 2024 10:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Pamela Chestek <<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [E-trademarks] CAFC handed down its opinion in In re Chestek today.<o:p></o:p></div>
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My thought on this is an international trademark law authority or scholar who could say that other countries do not require a street address. We might be able to crowd source that through Carl's list (personally, having never once been required to provide more
detailed address information in 20 years of practice in many countries), but I think someone who might look at some countries' laws and say it isn't required would be helpful.<br>
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Pam<o:p></o:p></p>
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Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
300 Fayetteville St.<br>
Unit 2402<br>
Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br>
<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">On 2/16/2024 10:17 AM, david--- via E-trademarks wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I can ask professors. May not be a specific group but I’d bet a lot of individuals. <o:p></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">David Hricik<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">151 Country Creek Rd.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Macon, GA 31220<o:p></o:p></div>
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On Feb 16, 2024, at 10:11 AM, Chelsie Spencer<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:cspencer@ritterspencercheng.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><cspencer@ritterspencercheng.com></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Another thought is that state bar trademark or IP sections or committees may be tapped for filing amici. We have an active section here
in Texas.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Chelsie Spencer | Managing Attorney</span><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<p><b><span style="font-size: 13pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Ritter Spencer Cheng PLLC</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">15455 Dallas Parkway, Suite 600</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Addison, Texas 75001</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Office: 214-295-5070</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Direct: 214-295-5074</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b><span style="">From:</span></b><span style=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>E-trademarks<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>on
behalf of david--- via E-trademarks<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, February 16, 2024 9:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:david@hricik.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">david@hricik.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:david@hricik.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><david@hricik.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [E-trademarks] CAFC handed down its opinion in In re Chestek today.</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If I can help let me know. I probably know Aipla people to contact.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">David Hricik<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">151 Country Creek Rd.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Macon, GA 31220<o:p></o:p></div>
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On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:36 AM, David Boundy via E-trademarks<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I pledge $3000 and an amicus brief. I will contact Brad Forrest who may be able to route this through AIPLA (it'd be more effective to have this coming from AIPLA than from just plain
old me or from PTAAARMIGAN). If AIPLA doesn't bite, I'll file another as plain old me.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 9:31 AM Pamela Chestek via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
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Heather is right. I spent six figures on the appeal and I received two donations (thank you so much to those who donated).<br>
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I can't afford to take this any further; I have a small practice. I don't have a good estimate yet for the cost for a petition for rehearing, but ballpark is $30K.<br>
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But it's more than that. Reviews are rarely granted and to increase the likelihood of success we need amici. I think that the IP organizations (INTA, AIPLA, IPO, ABA) should be alarmed by the unchecked rulemaking power of the USPTO, which doesn't apply just
to trademarks, but patents too. Other organizations should be alarmed by the fact that the PTO has zero concern for vulnerable populations, privacy in general, or computer security. Through eliding by the PTO, the board also misunderstood that other countries
do NOT require address information and seemed to weigh that incorrect fact fairly heavily, so we need someone to correct that misunderstanding. I understand that the amici lift is fairly light though, limited to 2600 words.<br>
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I can't afford, in money, time or contacts, to do it by myself anymore. I also have to decide fairly soon whether to petition for rehearing so my lawyer will have time to brief it.<br>
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Pam<o:p></o:p></p>
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Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
300 Fayetteville St.<br>
Unit 2402<br>
Raleigh, NC 27602<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br>
<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chesteklegal.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7CJohn.Welch%40WolfGreenfield.com%7C72e808377ab5469c47d908dc2f2d753a%7Cb901eaf4094b4541a2d3aaf604290208%7C0%7C0%7C638437119503562883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E6BcXj%2ByMJ8tpKUZHoYo66dlBPZ%2FNDdN%2FCrmeTP2kBk%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="http://www.chesteklegal.com/" shash="L0S5HCgP+q39nOqf3csDVpwiXUtpxZkEfBsrxWDx4cDGvGKpYnSMfebBXSHi6ZNiNALc/K1GsZNcAhVsqbGUz87aXsAnPhA36OAhqyf3evXmkVBn2DxbSrlgShSSEfYQmMnBI8tY1SBZ7LcTLuURsBsaq6NSqBcsoAJpS4z2w1A=" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">On 2/16/2024 7:28 AM, Heather Vargas via E-trademarks wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-size: 14pt;">My recollection is that when Pam decided to do this, a bunch of us piped up and said we would contribute, but it sounds like we did not follow through. I would submit that rather than general statements of support, we either
“pledge” a specific amount that Pam or her proxy can come ask us to fulfill, or we set up a fund and Pam can decide when day zero to file the motion hits, if we put our money where our mouths are. I am sorry that I cannot personally coordinate this; I am
almost a year into covering my practice plus my partner’s who has been on medical leave for the better part of a year, but I will pledge or contribute if one of these things happens.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><cobbcolelogomodrgb_4d64a9e3-83d6-4a74-9443-b78133d2646e.png><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Heather Vargas (She/Her/Hers)<br>
Florida Bar No. 230900<br>
Board Certified in Intellectual Property Law<br>
Cobb Cole<br>
149 S. Ridgewood Avenue<br>
Suite 700<br>
Daytona Beach, FL 32114<br>
(D) 386-323-9220 | (F) 386-323-9206<br>
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<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Notice: The information contained in this email transmission is intended by the sender for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is
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<b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>E-trademarks<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Carl Oppedahl via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, February 15, 2024 11:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Carl Oppedahl<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:carl@oppedahl.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><carl@oppedahl.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [E-trademarks] CAFC handed down its opinion in In re Chestek today.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>The appeal effort up until now had cost the applicant/appellant really a lot of money, many tens of thousands of dollars. I am aware of at least one member of the listserv who contributed a bit of money toward that cost.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Yes, an<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>en banc<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>request might be worth pursuing. This would cost some tens of thousands of dollars in addition to the costs already incurred.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I wonder whether the trademark community would be willing to pony up the cost of the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>en banc<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>request? Possible approaches could include setting up a gofundme (which
would incur fees to the provider of the gofundme service) or perhaps a listserv member serving as the collection point for contributions. I imagine there any of a number of listserv members who could be trusted to provide that service and would not ask for
any fee for that service.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Carl<o:p></o:p></p>
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On 2/15/2024 8:57 AM, John L. Welch via E-trademarks wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Maybe a request for<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>en banc</i>reconsideration would be worth pursuing?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">JLW</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Erikson, Daan<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Daan.Erikson@huschblackwell.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><Daan.Erikson@huschblackwell.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, February 15, 2024 9:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Welch, John L.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:John.Welch@WolfGreenfield.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><John.Welch@WolfGreenfield.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE: CAFC handed down its opinion in In re Chestek today.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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I have read this decision and am curious what others think of the reasoning. I find the last part of the decision (page 13) particularly perplexing. Isn’t it circular to say that an agency doesn’t have to prepare for every eventuality, especially when there
is nothing in the record about privacy concerns, when there wasn’t a reason for people to be concerned about privacy during the notice and comment period? And anyway how is this change not a substantive rule that affects individual rights and obligations
when it affects individuals’ privacy rights?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John L. Welch via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, February 13, 2024 11:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>John L. Welch <<a href="mailto:John.Welch@WolfGreenfield.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">John.Welch@WolfGreenfield.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[E-trademarks] CAFC handed down its opinion in In re Chestek today.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: red;">[EXTERNAL EMAIL]</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">The “where do you sleep at night” case.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Pdf attached</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">JLW</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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<div style="margin: 0in; text-align: start;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(96, 110, 154);">David Boundy </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(124, 134, 154);">| Partner <span style="background: white;">| </span>Potomac Law
Group, PLLC</span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(50, 49, 48);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; text-align: start;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(124, 134, 154);">P.O. Box 590638, Newton, MA 02459</span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(50, 49, 48);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(124, 134, 154);">Tel (646) 472-9737 </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: gray;">|</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(124, 134, 154);"> Fax:
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<div style="margin: 0in;"><u><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);"><a href="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: rgb(254, 70, 165);">dboundy@potomaclaw.com</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(12, 100, 192);"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(124, 134, 154);">| <u><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.potomaclaw.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7CJohn.Welch%40WolfGreenfield.com%7C72e808377ab5469c47d908dc2f2d753a%7Cb901eaf4094b4541a2d3aaf604290208%7C0%7C0%7C638437119503719150%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5p%2BDjF%2FByPySX%2Fm%2F0cMmzoTybRVKVJ1Sg8vyCSgdKUA%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="http://www.potomaclaw.com/" shash="MK1oUao/adewBRjW65GmU8igD3zIBUI+VyO8ROlNa7oc6bSzN2aDfRALMGYonJi1TwMiCo3dPdv3HGCoGkN8KD+bI6sQ5G4qV8JX0DPOI7qlnw9vBUa5oc6gI0PY+6xMj9Yn/NYnWmeA+uTZbRbSAsWRlJuwPavhvX+IUaZy7KE=" target="_blank" title="http://www.potomaclaw.com/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: rgb(12, 100, 192);">www.potomaclaw.com</span></a></u></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(124, 134, 154);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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