<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size:16px;font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;,serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;,serif">To be fair, </span></span><span style="font-size:16px;font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;,serif"><span class="gmail_default">I am both </span></span><span style="font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;font-size:12pt">\u201cold-guard trademark professionals like us who talk on this listserv\u201d
and also \u201cso very very hungry for work<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;,serif">.</span>\u201d<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;,serif">  But nobody&#39;s calling me about these cases, so </span></span><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102);font-family:Roboto,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:14px">¯\_(\u30c4)_/¯<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;,serif">.</span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;font-size:12pt"><div><br clear="all"></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:tahoma;font-size:medium"><span style="font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;,serif"><span style="font-size:16px">Cheers,</span></span></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:tahoma;font-size:medium"><span style="font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;,serif"><span style="font-size:16px"> </span></span></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:tahoma;font-size:medium"><span style="font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;,serif"><span style="color:rgb(255,102,0);font-size:12pt">Sam<span> Castree, III</span></span></span></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:tahoma;font-size:medium"><span style="font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;,serif"><span style="color:rgb(255,102,0);font-size:12pt"><br></span></span></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:medium"><font face="times new roman, serif"><span style="color:rgb(255,102,0);font-size:12pt"><span><i>Sam Castree Law, LLC</i></span></span></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face="times new roman, serif"><span style="color:rgb(255,102,0)"><span><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>3421 W. Elm St.</i></span></span></span></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face="times new roman, serif"><span style="color:rgb(255,102,0)"><span><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>McHenry, IL 60050</i></span></span></span></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face="times new roman, serif"><span style="color:rgb(255,102,0)"><span><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>(815) 344-6300</i></span></span></span></font></div></div></div></div></span><br></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 17, 2024 at 9:23\u202fAM Carl Oppedahl via E-trademarks &lt;<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

  
    
  
  <div>
    <p>Yes, I have been running into situations in recent months where I
      work on some recurring task in trademark world, and I lose money
      on the recurring task.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>And I have been running into situations in recent months where I
      simply decline a potential new client trademark matter, because my
      spidey sense hints to me that I would likely lose money on the
      task.</p>
    <p>I have gotten to the point where as a general matter I only do a
      trademark task if it is for an existing client for whom I have
      carried out that kind of task multiple times in the past.  Meaning
      that it is not so likely to be a high-maintenance and money-losing
      task.</p>
    <p>Your mention of Legalzoom lines up with one of my recent
      musings.  Where are these potential new client trademark matters
      going, if they are not getting handled by old-guard trademark
      professionals like us who talk on this listserv?  Are the tasks
      ending up at places like Legalzoom?  Are the tasks going to
      trademark attorneys who are so very very hungry for work that they
      are willing to accept a task even though they receive only a very
      small professional fee?</p>
    <p>And I also muse on what effect these shifts and trends are likely
      to have upon the Trademark Office and its Examining Attorneys. 
      Surely one possible effect is that the submissions are of poorer
      quality.  Submissions in which corners get cut, little or no
      professional review takes place, specimens of use are of poorer
      quality, IDs represent more-painful mismatches between the words
      of the ID and what activity the applicant/registrant is actually
      engaged in.    <br>
    </p>
    <div>On 12/17/2024 7:56 AM, Mark Kaufman via
      E-trademarks wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">Yes,
      but clients seem to think it\u2019s business as usual. An overseas law
      firm just sent me a \u201creferral\u201d where the client set a budget that
      is literally less than the potential filing fees, alone, with
      almost no attorneys fees, for a mark in multiple classes.  
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Maybe I\u2019m tempting the fates of LegalZoom, but after
        detailing all the fees (and creating a template for future
        clients), and receiving their kind rejection, I wrote that if
        they find someone else to do the work for that amount and then
        need help on responding to an office action resulting from such
        services,  \u201cplease let me know if we can be of assistance\u2026\u201d
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thank you,</div>
        <div>Mark</div>
        <div><br>
          <div>
            <div dir="ltr">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Mark S. Kaufman</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Kaufman &amp; Kahn, LLP</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Email:  <a href="mailto:kaufman@kaufmankahn.com" target="_blank">kaufman@kaufmankahn.com</a></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.kaufmankahn.com/" target="_blank">www.kaufmankahn.com</a></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>10 Grand Central</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span><a dir="ltr">155 East 44</a><sup><a dir="ltr">th</a></sup><a dir="ltr"> Street, 19</a><sup><a dir="ltr">th</a></sup><a dir="ltr"> Floor</a></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><a dir="ltr">New York, NY  10017</a> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Mobile:  <a href="tel:(917)%20453-7807" dir="ltr" target="_blank">(917) 453-7807</a> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Tel.:  <a href="tel:(212)%20293-5556" dir="ltr" target="_blank">(212) 293-5556</a>, x 2</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span><img width="371" height="51" id="m_-7225750409343412893Picture_x0020_7" title="null"></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>This email is intended only for
                  the party to whom it is addressed and may contain
                  privileged or confidential information. If you are not
                  the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
                  any use, dissemination or copying of this email is
                  prohibited. If you have received this email in error,
                  kindly notify us immediately, return the email to us,
                  and destroy any electronic or other copies of the
                  email (including any notification to us in your \u201cSent\u201d
                  folder). Thank you in advance for your cooperation and
                  courtesy.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
              On Dec 2, 2024, at 6:47\u202fPM, Carl Oppedahl via E-trademarks
              <a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">&lt;e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">\ufeff
              <p>I am simply adding up all of the new gouge fees from
                the Trademark Office and telling the client that this is
                the new price for filing a trademark application.<br>
              </p>
              <div>On 12/2/2024 2:24 PM, Kevin
                Grierson via E-trademarks wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">With regard to the surcharge,
                    I\u2019ve been telling clients that the standard
                    application fee is going up $200 per class, unless
                    we can fit the description into the pre-approved
                    list on the TMID. Because \u201cstandard fee plus
                    surcharge\u201d is, in essence, replacing the old TEAS
                    standard filing.</p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">With regard to the insufficient
                    information charge, the causes for it are the same
                    as for failing to comply with TEAS-plus
                    requirements, but I\u2019m still trying to figure out
                    what to say there other than to emphasize that we
                    need to have all the required information ready when
                    we file.  </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
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                                                          <p><b><span>Kevin Grierson</span></b><b><span>\u200b</span></b><b><span>\u200b</span></b><b><span>\u200b</span></b><b><span>\u200b</span></b><b><span></span></b></p>
                                                          </td>
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                                                          <p><span>|</span></p>
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                                                          </td>
                                                          <td nowrap>
                                                          <p><span>Partner</span></p>
                                                          </td>
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                                                      <p><span></span></p>
                                                      <div>&lt;image001.png&gt;</div>
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                                                          <p><span></span></p>
                                                          <div>&lt;image002.png&gt;</div>
                                                          </td>
                                                          <td>
                                                          <p><span>  <a href="tel:757-726-7799" target="_blank"><span>757-726-7799</span></a></span></p>
                                                          </td>
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                                                          <p><span></span></p>
                                                          <div>&lt;image003.png&gt;</div>
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                                                          <p><span>  <a><span>866-521-5663</span></a></span></p>
                                                          </td>
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                                                          <p><span></span></p>
                                                          <div>&lt;image004.png&gt;</div>
                                                          </td>
                                                          <td>
                                                          <p><span>  <a href="mailto:kgrierson@cm.law" target="_blank"><span>kgrierson@cm.law</span></a></span></p>
                                                          </td>
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                                                      <p><b><i><span>Please note: Culhane Meadows is now CM Law</span></i></b></p>
                                                    </td>
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                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span>
                          E-trademarks <a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">&lt;e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com&gt;</a>
                          <b>On Behalf Of </b>Laura Geyer via
                          E-trademarks<br>
                          <b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 2, 2024 4:03 PM<br>
                          <b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This
                          is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">&lt;e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com&gt;</a><br>
                          <b>Cc:</b> Laura Geyer <a href="mailto:lgeyer@ndgallilaw.com" target="_blank">&lt;lgeyer@ndgallilaw.com&gt;</a><br>
                          <b>Subject:</b> [E-trademarks] What are you
                          telling your clients ...</span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> <span>EXTERNAL EMAIL</span></p>
                          </div>
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                    </tbody>
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                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">About the absolutely insane and
                      absurd subcharge that an awful lot of our clients
                      will need to pay to use the freeform g/s field in
                      applications starting next year? And how are you
                      presenting the highly unpredictable \u201cdeficiency\u201d
                      amounts in estimates?</p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">(I still can\u2019t believe they\u2019re
                      doing this when it\u2019s basically the only way to
                      avoid a 2(d) refusal in many cases where the
                      broader definition makes no darned sense. Or when
                      the broader category doesn\u2019t include a field
                      option?)</p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>Laura Talley Geyer</span></b><span>
                          | </span><b><span>Of Counsel</span></b><span>
                        </span><span></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span> </span></b></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>ND Galli Law LLC</span></b><span></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span>1200 G Street, N.W.,
                          Ste 800</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Washington, DC 20005</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Tel: (202) 599-9019
                          (direct)</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span><a href="https://ndgallilaw.com/laura-geyer/" target="_blank">https://ndgallilaw.com/laura-geyer/</a></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span><a href="https://ndgallilaw.com/" target="_blank">https://ndgallilaw.com/</a></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <br>
                <fieldset></fieldset>
              </blockquote>
              <span>-- </span><br>
              <span>E-trademarks mailing list</span><br>
              <span><a href="mailto:E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a></span><br>
              <span><a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com</a></span><br>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
    </blockquote>
  </div>

-- <br>
E-trademarks mailing list<br>
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</blockquote></div>