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<span dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">For the reasons you stated, I wish somebody would start a competitive service where the results are based on what you searched for, not what the algorithm suggests. If the marketplace rules are what they are, brands for a lot of things don't matter. That's why you see a ton of nonsensical brand names for low dollar product. I am concerned that one day those will be the only results you see.</span>
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<p>Jan 20, 2025 6:29:39 PM Pamela Chestek via E-trademarks <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com>:</p>
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Thanks Emil, that's very interesting. For what it's worth, I find Amazon to be a fairly useless marketplace for this very reason. Nowadays the results list is garbage. You used to be able to scan for reputable sellers but I can't find them anymore. Whenever I search, virtually all the results are for consonant-only products, generally with spelling or grammatical errors in the listing. I'm not going to buy consonant-only computer cables because they might fry my electronics, or eye hooks because they will be made of inferior metal, or a replacement stylus because it might not mate with my tablet. I recently read an article published in the <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.inta.org/resources/the-trademark-reporter/">TMR</a> suggesting there would be a post-trademark world because AI will be so good at ascertaining what product we need we won't need to rely on trademarks, but we aren't there yet.
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So in IMHO, while many of the trademarks are actually legitimately used for products, Amazon has successfully fostered a marketplace so full of crap that it has become completely unreliable. Perhaps they should direct their efforts at verifying the legitimacy of vendors and the reliability of their products (gee - isn't that what stores used to do?), not using a trademark registration as a proxy for it.
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Pamela S. Chestek
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On 1/20/2025 11:55 AM, Emil Ali via E-trademarks wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">I think I have some insight to what everyone might consider a problem. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">First, we have to understand why \u201cthese applicants\u201d file trademark applications with the USPTO. It can easily be explained, not by the USPTO\u2019s inaccurate suggestion that China is subsidizing filings, but because \u201cthese applicants\u201d want to sell on Amazon.com, and that company requires (currently) a pending application with a trademark authority. In the US, it would be the USPTO. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Why Amazon requires a trademark application is simple\u2014they rely on the government to be the determining factor (to save them money) on who owns a TM, and hopefully to make the takedown process easier. So if I want to sell my Tumi Backpack on their website, I cannot\u2014because I don\u2019t have the Amazon Brand Registry Code from Tumi\u2019s mark. When people ask why there are so many gibberish trademarks filed\u2014one can just see that those are the easiest to fly through the USPTO. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Next, not all the attorneys who get involved are bad. Many are down on their luck, and many more have their identity stolen. Others also work with larger staff to get what their clients want\u2014a filed application to get onto ABR. I have seen all ends of the spectrum\u2014not everyone who represents applicants from China are \u201cbad.\u201d </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">I also understand that Amazon is feeling the pressure of their mistake. On of their outside counsels, Brad Behar, has been filing \u201canonymous\u201d grievances against attorneys who practice before the USPTO\u2014usually ones that complained to Amazon about being on a blacklist (remember that for a while if you took over the POA in an application subject to sanctions, you were placed on a blacklist). They have since expanded their grievance submission process to anyone who has filed a large number of trademark applications from China. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Finally, the USPTO is obligated, under the APA, to allow attorneys licensed in any state or territory to appear before them in non-patent matters. As such, I don\u2019t believe an exam is possible, absent congressional intervention. I also don\u2019t know how much that would help. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">My take\u2014solve the problem by telling Amazon to stop abusing the trademark system. If sellers in China did not need to apply for a trademark application, we would not have the flood of applications. Unfortunately, though, Amazon has outsized influence at the USPTO, and many people on this listserv may also see a lower volume of applications, because non-Chinese sellers are looking for the same ABR code. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:1.5pt;"><b><span style="color:#9DC435;font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;">Emil J. Ali </span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:15.0pt;margin-bottom:15.0pt;"><span style="color:#121212;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;">PARTNER<br></span><b><span style="color:#9DC435;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;">P:</span></b><span style="color:#121212;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;"> 310.596.1234 | </span><b><span style="color:#9DC435;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;">C:</span></b><span style="color:#121212;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;"> 202.556.3645 | </span><b><span style="color:#9DC435;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;">F:</span></b><span style="color:#121212;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;"> 310.649.7890<br><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:emil@mccabeali.com">emil@mccabeali.com</a> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><b><span style="color:black;">From: </span></b><span style="color:black;">E-trademarks <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> on behalf of Miriam Richter, Esq. via E-trademarks <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br><b>Date: </b>Monday, January 20, 2025 at 11:41</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">\u202f</span><span style="color:black;">AM<br><b>To: </b>Annette Heller <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tmattorneyheller@aol.com"><tmattorneyheller@aol.com></a>, For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br><b>Cc: </b>Miriam Richter, Esq. <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mrichter@richtertrademarks.com"><mrichter@richtertrademarks.com></a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [E-trademarks] 2024 USPTO filings (mostly not from this list) </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">All good points and some of the reasons I gave up on it. My crusade was actually not because of the fraud issues but was, as Pam describes it, the knowledge gap. It was also before the US attorney requirement. I can\u2019t tell you how many meetings I attended where the quality of applications was the source of our angst. As Carl can confirm (because he is an exception) my gripes started with the patent attorneys and the others who do trademark work on the side. Those of us who are 100% trademark do a lot of damage control for applications filed by the non-TM practitioners.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Since then, however, our collective focus (and mine) has been shifted to bigger and more pressing issues. I don\u2019t think we will find a solution but rather, will continue chopping away at the problem in small bites by making small changes.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Into the breach we must charge!</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">Best, </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">Miriam </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"DellaRobbia
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:#4F81BD;font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"DellaRobbia
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;"> E-trademarks <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Annette Heller via E-trademarks<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 20, 2025 2:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Annette Heller <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tmattorneyheller@aol.com"><tmattorneyheller@aol.com></a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] 2024 USPTO filings (mostly not from this list)</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">I agree with Pam's reasoning. An exam won't solve any of the problems and would become another administrative expense</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">Annette P. Heller<br>
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TM Law & Associates<br>
400 Chesterfield Center Ste 400<br>
Chesterfield [St Louis] MO 63017<br><br></span><a href="http://www.trademarkatty.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">www.TrademarkAtty.com</span></a><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"><br><br>
314-469-2610 Fax 314-469-4850</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In a message dated 1/20/2025 12:15:42 PM Central Standard Time, <a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a> writes:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">As one of only 25 certified trademark specialists in the country,* and having been on the committee that prepares the questions and grades the exams, I think I can speak with some authority! <br><br>
I don't think the problem is one of knowledge but one of identity of the filer, and the PTO claims to be addressing the latter problem (in part by diligently rooting out those virtual addresses). The difficulty of an exam is where you draw the line on knowledge. Will you draw it where those business lawyers who file 2-3 applications are year, and surely don't know the TMEP (and, god forbid, are still filing paper applications) will fail, or not bother to take it? Who does that serve? (Well us, for starters.) How huge is the administrative burden and cost of testing tens of thousands of people?<br><br>
The data you cited revealed very few offices filing a lot of applications. IMHO, what the attorney representation requirement did was turn a cottage industry into a consolidated industry that works way more efficiently than those individuals ever did. The industrial machine will have a lawyer take (and pass) the exam and still file just as many fraudulent applications. Crooks gonna crook and there are plenty of lawyers who would be willing to flout the ethical rules to do it - I mean, it's not like they send you to jail for it. So you won't have solved the problem but you will have reduced the number lawyers available to the public for legitimate work. So I don't see testing as a step that will actually do much to address the problem.<br><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW MAILING ADDRESS<br>
4641 Post St.<br>
Unit 4316<br>
El Dorado Hills, CA 95762<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br><a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br><a href="http://www.chesteklegal.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.chesteklegal.com</a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/20/2025 9:36 AM, Lara Pearson via E-trademarks wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'd be especially thrilled if we could swap this solution out for the ineffective, arduous Domicile Requirement that does nothing to achieve it's stated purpose (as Clarivate's table shows) and instead causes bona fide applicants time, money and stress.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thoughts?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Lara Pearson, Esq.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://Calendly.com/BrandGeek" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Calendly.com/BrandGeek</a> (let's meet)</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">On Jan 20, 2025, at 9:32<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">\u202f</span>AM, Miriam Richter, Esq. <a href="mailto:mrichter@richtertrademarks.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><mrichter@richtertrademarks.com></a> wrote:</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Lara,</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">For years, I was very vocal about this idea (as many on this list serve can attest). As hard as I tried, and as many PTO and AIPLA officials as I talked to, I could not get any traction. If you want to pick up the mantle, you have my full support! </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><span style="color:black;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">Best, </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><span style="color:black;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">Miriam </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><span style="color:black;font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;">Miriam Richter, Attorney at Law, P.L.</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><em><span style="color:#4F81BD;font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;">Make Your Mark!</span></em><em><span style="color:#4F81BD;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"> ®</span></em><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><span style="color:black;font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;">Trademark, Copyright, and other Intellectual Property Matters</span><span style="color:black;font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;"><br></span><span style="color:black;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;">2312 Wilton Drive, Suite 9<br>
Wilton Manors, Florida 33305</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><span style="color:black;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;"> </span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><span style="color:black;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;">954-977-4711 office</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><strong><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"> E-trademarks </span><a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"><e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"> <strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">On Behalf Of </span></strong>Lara Pearson via E-trademarks<br><strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">Sent:</span></strong> Monday, January 20, 2025 12:21 PM<br><strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">To:</span></strong> </span><a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"><br><strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">Cc:</span></strong> Lara Pearson </span><a href="mailto:lara@brandgeek.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"><lara@brandgeek.net></span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">; </span><a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"><br><strong><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [E-trademarks] 2024 USPTO filings (mostly not from this list)</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">One of the suggestions I made in my post was that the US PTO administer a trademark admissions exam similar in nature to that which it uses for patent attorneys.</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">I would love to know ya'll thoughts on whether that could work to address the issue of fraudulent, primarily Chinese, TM apps.</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">I'm especially curious to hear from Carl and the other patent/TM attorneys on the list.</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">Happy MLK Day.</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">Warmly,</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">Lara Pearson, Esq.</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">Law Office of Lara Pearson Ltd, PBC & Brand Geek</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">775.833.1600</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><a href="http://Calendly.com/BrandGeek" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Calendly.com/BrandGeek</a> (let's meet)</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">Creative typoing by iPhone</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">On Jan 19, 2025, at 6:02<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">\u202f</span>PM, Pamela Chestek via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p>Fascinating reading, thanks for posting Lara.</p>
<p>Pam</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW MAILING ADDRESS<br>
4641 Post St.<br>
Unit 4316<br>
El Dorado Hills, CA 95762<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br>
pamela@chesteklegal<br><a href="http://www.chesteklegal.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.chesteklegal.com</a></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">On 1/19/2025 5:25 PM, Lara Pearson via E-trademarks wrote:</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">Hi List friends:</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><span style="color:black;">Happy Sunday Funday.</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">I reposted Robert Reading & Clarivate's data on 2024 US TM filings on LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/posts/brandgeek_trademarks-activity-7286822761556033536-bRZ3?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.linkedin.com/posts/brandgeek_trademarks-activity-7286822761556033536-bRZ3?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios</a></p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">Let's discuss (here, and there, and everywhere) and may we each find a joyful way to honor MLK tomorrow.</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"> </p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">I feel grateful for each of you, and this list brings me joy (and so much wisdom).</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">Cheers!</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">Lara Pearson, Esq.</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">Law Office of Lara Pearson Ltd, PBC & Brand Geek</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">775.833.1600</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal"><a href="http://Calendly.com/BrandGeek" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Calendly.com/BrandGeek</a> (let's meet)</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">Creative typoing by iPhone</p>
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<p class="yiv3048311447msonormal">-- <br>
E-trademarks mailing list<br><a href="mailto:E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br><a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com</a></p>
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