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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I may have missed something, but why are we concluding that the title \u201claw clerk\u201d means that the person who issued the Office Action isn\u2019t an attorney in good standing and admitted to a state\u2019s bar? If the
Office Action came out of Law Office 300 \u2013 that certainly confirms that it is a trainee Examiner.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I think at the end of the day the frustration lies in the quality of the Office Action, and we can likely all find common ground in saying that the quality spectrum in OA\u2019s has expanded significantly over
the past decade.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#385623">Katie Markert<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Partner<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:4.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#385623">Markert & Cominolli PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#385623">Phone:</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#385623">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt">585-504-2507 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#385623">Email:</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#385623">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt"><a href="mailto:km@markertcominolli.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">km@markertcominolli.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#385623">Web:</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#385623">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt"><a href="http://www.markertcominolli.com/"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.markertcominolli.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">75 S. Clinton Ave., Suite 510, Rochester, NY 14604<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Laura Geyer via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 23, 2025 2:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Edward Timberlake <ed@timberlakelaw.com>; For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Laura Geyer <lgeyer@ndgallilaw.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] "Trademark Examining Law Clerk"??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I\u2019m really talking about what you can officially call yourself if you haven\u2019t passed the bar. In most states including MD and DC you have to be admitted to the bar to call yourself a lawyer or attorney. Maybe it varies by state? A person
who has finished law school but not yet been admitted is a \u201claw clerk\u201d (or other appropriate title)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On the other hand, once you have practiced law, I think you\u2019re a lawyer forever, right? I mean, they can\u2019t take it out of you, that inbuild capacity to catastrophize on behalf of clients that you then get to apply universally to drive everyone
in your life nuts. <span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#174E86;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Laura Talley Geyer</span></b><span style="color:#333333;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"> |
</span><b><span style="color:#666666;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Of Counsel</span></b><span style="color:black;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#174E86;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#174E86;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">ND Galli Law LLC</span></b><span style="color:black;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">1200 G Street, N.W., Ste 800<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Washington, DC 20005<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Tel: (202) 599-9019 (direct)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><a href="https://ndgallilaw.com/laura-geyer/">https://ndgallilaw.com/laura-geyer/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><a href="https://ndgallilaw.com/">https://ndgallilaw.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Edward Timberlake <<a href="mailto:ed@timberlakelaw.com">ed@timberlakelaw.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 23, 2025 2:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Laura Geyer <<a href="mailto:lgeyer@ndgallilaw.com">lgeyer@ndgallilaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] "Trademark Examining Law Clerk"??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:#CC0000">EXTERNAL EMAIL</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">At the risk of sounding snarkier than I actually feel, it may not always be terribly is to define "an actual lawyer."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Is somebody who graduates from law school a lawyer? Are they an actual lawyer?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Is somebody who has graduated from law school and has taken the bar exam a lawyer?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Is somebody who has graduated from law school, taken the bar exam, passed the bar exam but has not yet been admitted to practice in any jurisdiction a lawyer?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Is somebody who has graduated from law school, taken the bar exam, been hired and trained by the PTO but not yet received their bar results a lawyer?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Sincerely,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Ed Timberlake </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.nclawspecialists.gov%2ffor-the-public%2ffind-a-board-certified-specialist%2fresults%2fdetail%2f%3fid%3d29473&c=E,1,KTJQTRopm8yEhkCZX0yLPWQW0nV3h-qwscWcfo_b2OB1v5QRponhLWUNKwZ9eiXRalEr1FUL_xyN_LWkWmzwwjcCIHD-gJCEWWov2dr5krWtNA,,&typo=1" target="_blank">Board
Certified Specialist in Trademark Law</a></span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ftimberlakelaw.com%2f&c=E,1,1MgY4R2REN0CiLaari2FgDh1B0s7kAVWebM0O1FU9KjxqPR46T1txEG2Vg_LWFoZi4B7l0wiDyL810Z4dSptyTB2GJXdnA8AAu7S0t40ebaCdSK_YEOT4A,,&typo=1" target="_blank"><b>Timberlake
Law</b></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Chapel Hill, NC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fclarity.fm%2fedtimberlake&c=E,1,9SPG8-tJ1d0kV1fZIQNKaRALxdeWH1hxGCudPCf9wxRe7gzgb081HX52KiY2vHsRrKSDsOPrTqABAws6OhiMeBx7uUSI-RMq5zkCP3ZckA-GZJ8,&typo=1" target="_blank">Schedule
a call on Clarity</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="mailto:ed@timberlakelaw.com" target="_blank">ed@timberlakelaw.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">919.960.1950<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 1:22<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span>PM Laura Geyer via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dear Listmates:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I probably missed something where this change was announced, but I was recently invited to view one of the most fiddly, pointless initial office actions I\u2019ve ever seen (not my client!),
signed by a \u201cTrademark Examining Law Clerk\u201d and not an examining attorney. It was a refusal w/ very boilerplate cut-n-paste and included mistakes of law that do not apply to the covered situation and some stuff that was just weird.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So is it now normal at the PTO for non-attorneys to examine applications and issue refusals that are pretty clearly \u201cpractice of law\u201d? Can one request that an actual lawyer take
a look at it before blowing a lot of client money responding to a seriously shoddy OA?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Laura<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:#174E86">Laura Talley Geyer</span></b><span style="color:#333333"> |
</span><b><span style="color:#666666">Of Counsel</span></b><span style="color:black">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:#174E86"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:#174E86">ND Galli Law LLC</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1200 G Street, N.W., Ste 800<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Washington, DC 20005<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Tel: (202) 599-9019 (direct)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fndgallilaw.com%2flaura-geyer%2f&c=E,1,F9wAT924Tgo9nGwLHlo09Snau30F_3HhTF5CSOce7A0aH1vkNPsYUm7St6TNinVJrhYEBspYN4e7md1mstOnPTkKLLd1X_lyE1xKLbAB&typo=1" target="_blank">https://ndgallilaw.com/laura-geyer/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fndgallilaw.com%2f&c=E,1,sYxkm5Dp_UxHSK79oRGFbVuWdWJm0aDTCNDoB7PGLiszJJ0Hw7XNOpaxgAkYYQxOkVGaxdun5i914-EJVEZ5LZafrSY1x0fMyHBWUQc-9-18fg,,&typo=1" target="_blank">https://ndgallilaw.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
E-trademarks mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2foppedahl-lists.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fe-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com&c=E,1,JCzEaGi2UieU8CKocn5CRo1dQ-zC89aBDFy7krdPdULVhHGRhwznKV5x6pXtoC2mGFD89qwPY-kTfZHet5CQqmiJrZr6E2J-Af5N3jiFCl4,&typo=1" target="_blank">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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