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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">John:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Appreciate the explanation of what a law clerk is. And
<b>of course</b> we all make mistakes but, as noted by others, it\u2019s absolutely unimaginable that a non-attorney\u2019s work product would go out without review by an accrual attorney as required by ethics rules in most legal institutions. It\u2019s bad enough that no
trademark experience is required of new hires prior to hiring (trademark law being just so simple to learn in a few months), something that is not fair either to new examining attorneys nor applicants, but allowing non-admitted law clerks to act in an attorney
capacity seems bonkers to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Now maybe their product <b>is</b> reviewed by attorneys \u2013 and if that\u2019s the case, I would expect OAs to continue to be signed by admitted attorneys and not non-attorneys.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">But I\u2019m sure at the PTO there is or even has been a rule that an official refusal with enormous legal significance can just be signed and sent by a non-attorney and we just didn\u2019t notice it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Thanks all!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#174E86;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Laura Talley Geyer</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#333333;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"> |
</span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#666666;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Of Counsel</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">
</span><span style="color:black;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#174E86;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#174E86;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">ND Galli Law LLC</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">1200 G Street, N.W., Ste 800<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Washington, DC 20005<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Tel: (202) 599-9019 (direct)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><a href="https://ndgallilaw.com/laura-geyer/"><span style="color:blue">https://ndgallilaw.com/laura-geyer/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><a href="https://ndgallilaw.com/"><span style="color:blue">https://ndgallilaw.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Dugger via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 23, 2025 1:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> John Dugger <jedugger@gmail.com>; e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] "Trademark Examining Law Clerk"??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:#CC0000">EXTERNAL EMAIL</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Newly hired Examining Attorneys start as law clerks until they are admitted to the bar. This is likely a recent graduate who just started with the agency. New hires must be admitted to the bar within one year to keep the job. We all make
mistakes when we are just starting out. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Jan 23, 2025, at 12:34<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span>PM, Elizabeth J. Rest via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">\ufeff</span> <span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">WHAT?! This horrifies me. I haven\u2019t seen that yet and if that\u2019s true it\u2019s not fair to us who have to deal with the nonsense Office Actions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Handwriting";color:black">Elizabeth</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><image001.png><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Laura Geyer via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 23, 2025 10:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Laura Geyer <<a href="mailto:lgeyer@ndgallilaw.com">lgeyer@ndgallilaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [E-trademarks] "Trademark Examining Law Clerk"??</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Dear Listmates:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I probably missed something where this change was announced, but I was recently invited to view one of the most fiddly, pointless initial office actions I\u2019ve ever seen (not my client!), signed by a \u201cTrademark
Examining Law Clerk\u201d and not an examining attorney. It was a refusal w/ very boilerplate cut-n-paste and included mistakes of law that do not apply to the covered situation and some stuff that was just weird.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">So is it now normal at the PTO for non-attorneys to examine applications and issue refusals that are pretty clearly \u201cpractice of law\u201d? Can one request that an actual lawyer take a look at it before blowing
a lot of client money responding to a seriously shoddy OA?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Laura</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#174E86">Laura Talley Geyer</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#333333"> |
</span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#666666">Of Counsel</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#174E86"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#174E86">ND Galli Law LLC</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">1200 G Street, N.W., Ste 800</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Washington, DC 20005</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Tel: (202) 599-9019 (direct)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://ndgallilaw.com/laura-geyer/"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue">https://ndgallilaw.com/laura-geyer/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://ndgallilaw.com/"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue">https://ndgallilaw.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-- <br>
E-trademarks mailing list<br>
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