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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0E2841">I remember that ever since before I was an examiner, 25+ years ago, the USPTO trademarks side had a law school intern or law clerk program and also that there were
examiners in my examiner training class that I started with who were just out of law school, were prior law school interns, and had started examining while still awaiting the results of the bar exam. My training class began at the USPTO in early November so
those new examiners were not going to find out about the bar until at least later that month or early the following year. As I recall, those examiners required co-signatures on their office actions a little longer than the rest of us.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0E2841"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0E2841">Are you sure that OA that was signed "Trademark Examining Law Clerk" did not have an extra set of handwritten initials or some indicia of a co-signature?
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0E2841"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0E2841">I also remember that when I was leaving the Office in the early 2000\u2019s, there was some contemplation or discussion of examination being conducted by nonattorneys
to expedite the process, but mainly for the informalities to allow the examiners to focus on the more substantive issues and refusals.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0E2841"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Alex Butterman<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Partner<b>
</b></span><b><span style="font-family:"Avenir Next";color:#37428A"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Avenir Next";color:#37428A"><a href="https://www.dbllawyers.com/"><span style="color:#7030A0">DUNLAP</span><span style="color:#0563C1"> </span><span style="color:#747474">BENNETT</span><span style="color:#0563C1"> </span><span style="color:#7030A0">&</span><span style="color:#0563C1">
</span><span style="color:#7030A0">LUDWIG</span></a></span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#156082"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:3.0pt"><i><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">211 Church St., SE; Leesburg, VA 20175<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:3.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">T: 703-777-7319</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#156082"> \u2013
</span><span style="color:#156082"><a href="https://www.dbllawyers.com/attorney/alex-butterman/"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">BIO</span></b></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:3.0pt"><span style="color:#156082"><img border="0" width="167" height="49" style="width:1.7416in;height:.5083in" id="Picture_x0020_2136213065" src="cid:image001.png@01DB6E38.7F275670" alt="A blue and white logo
Description automatically generated"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:3.0pt"><a href="https://www.dbllawyers.com/empowering-innovators/"><span style="color:#0E2841;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="300" height="50" style="width:3.125in;height:.525in" id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image002.png@01DB6E38.7F275670"></span></a><span style="color:#156082"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#156082">This electronic message contains information from Dunlap Bennett & Ludwig PLLC and may be confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, any
disclosure, copying, or use of the contents is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us and delete the message without copying or disclosing it.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0E2841"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0E2841"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dan Feigelson via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 24, 2025 3:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dan Feigelson <djf@iliplaw.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXT] Re: [E-trademarks] "Trademark Examining Law Clerk"??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><img border="0" width="1" height="1" style="width:.0083in;height:.0083in" id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://gcfagjf.r.bh.d.sendibt3.com/tr/op/iDqIVzRfYJbsYl3XzesGSdRTIcF4DgPAIZLxCuho_KJb3LcBAqssCxV2zpk9SeeWoZKeACcrTQseKH12sUtK2hmfIabT6601SQ7j9gVRWq8qJBg4VwmQr3tuyVgvFRYa_iVjSHfIo-eGxdKdC5wGPL_frl0N9lm4eUsk52hJbnxrwlx8QypoPdMLeLnvZ7fweZAvdJ1NIeJHPJoquXEtW5NE2fmVHUZlJA"></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In patents there are assistant examiners and primary examiners, as well as supervisory patent examiners (SPEs) who are above the primaries. An assistant examiner isn't allowed to sign an OA by himself - he must have the primary on the action
with him; <a href="https://gcfagjf.r.bh.d.sendibt3.com/tr/cl/uOKKe2y1-V29LcMtACDj8eSV9H1dhN4El66HXZxe57RN6cNX1nANyNTw0yz9Pp5BXvEKfxo5NkzvUJUdj5GydvA4URsp4BJIfqoDrl2Wh0LgR0Wfk-vshI-9J6CybaUCjTLj_de0MWU6DnEwVu1aMMJNxhE3Q6XNmDHyxNxq6IQRKDroXgtc7nn6yOGJQjMomakhwMIAjmn3dTfh_8HWDkJeM7CpbsA8zHgOoLYr5adf0XdfpYziG56AsHKoyb2MVilHdme5UK1GImo--2r5mqWkOryMN_whxoD1crtfY-w09aaMPfiZm3tqHwhW94BqXwKdAfsQ">
37 CFR 1004</a> even lists things for which a primary is responsible.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sounds like there's not a parallel requirement on the TM side, hard as that is to believe.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dan<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 8:52<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span>PM Martin, Winfield B. (Perkins Coie) via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I\u2019m sympathetic to new practitioners making mistakes (and Lord knows I did), but I would expect the PTO to conduct
some sort of supervision or review of new hires\u2019 work to avoid this very problem\u2014much as a firm reviews the work product of its new associates.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.5pt;color:black">Win Martin</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:#5B39B7">Perkins Coie</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black"><a href="tel:%20+1.202.654.6283" target="_blank"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">+1.206.359.3788</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Dugger via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 23, 2025 10:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> John Dugger <<a href="mailto:jedugger@gmail.com" target="_blank">jedugger@gmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] "Trademark Examining Law Clerk"??</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Newly hired Examining Attorneys start as law clerks until they are admitted to the bar. This is likely a recent graduate who just started with the agency. New hires must be admitted
to the bar within one year to keep the job. We all make mistakes when we are just starting out.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">John<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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