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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks Ed, but there is absolutely nothing in that section to justify the objection either.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thank you also to Susan, Ronni and Sam, good idea on separating them out.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Edward Timberlake via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 12, 2025 10:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Edward Timberlake <ed@timberlakelaw.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Or vs And in IDs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Also, it looks like the relevant section (that speaks specifically to the "downloadable or recorded" issue is TMEP 1402.03(d):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/current#/current/TMEP-1400d1e2241.html">https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/current#/current/TMEP-1400d1e2241.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Sincerely,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Ed Timberlake </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="https://www.nclawspecialists.gov/for-the-public/find-a-board-certified-specialist/results/detail/?id=29473" target="_blank">Board Certified Specialist in Trademark Law</a></span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="http://timberlakelaw.com/" target="_blank"><b>Timberlake Law</b></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Chapel Hill, NC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="https://clarity.fm/edtimberlake" target="_blank">Schedule a call on Clarity</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="mailto:ed@timberlakelaw.com" target="_blank">ed@timberlakelaw.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">919.960.1950<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 12:03<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span>PM Crane, Susan via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">How about just \u201cdownloadable software; recordable software\u201d and eliminate the conjunction altogether.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0072CE">Susan L. Crane</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#51534A">Group Vice President, Legal</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#51534A">Intellectual Property, Brands & Marketing</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#51534A">Wyndham Hotels & Resorts, Inc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#51534A">22 Sylvan Way</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#51534A">Parsippany, NJ 07054</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#51534A">O</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#51534A"> (973) 753-6455</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#51534A">M</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#51534A"> (973) 879-3420</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:Susan.Crane@wyndham.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#467886">Susan.Crane@wyndham.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Zemanick via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 12, 2025 11:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> e-trademarks (<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>) <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Steve Zemanick <<a href="mailto:Steve@fourreasonslegal.com" target="_blank">Steve@fourreasonslegal.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [E-trademarks] Or vs And in IDs</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white">Hello learned friends, I have an office action stating the following: \u201capplicant has included the term \u201cor\u201d in the identification. However,
this term is generally not accepted in identifications when (1) it is unclear whether</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <a href="https://us-phishalarm-ewt.proofpoint.com/EWT/v1/Nf401RNTQFE14GfWW3o!kEaL69ENw0E7IMs3ehMH36cKR102dVNk7EG79W_NfN-Jj0a4LszbJr0GZJwKsVlgr-xB9zBkx_YM6zoyfAlO6OQUe232W9KnqgKjkJRInY5hePh1AUc7gMfzgMNIfWibZlJN86TK6DFN-Q$" target="_blank"><strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;border:solid #666666 1.0pt;padding:6.0pt;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none"> Report Suspicious </span></strong></a> \u200c
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello learned friends,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I have an office action stating the following:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">\u201capplicant has included the term
<b>\u201cor\u201d </b>in the identification. However, this term is generally not accepted in identifications when (1) it is unclear whether applicant is using the mark, or intends to use the mark, on all the identified goods or services; (2) the nature of the goods and
services is unclear; or (3) classification cannot be determined from such wording.
<i>See </i>TMEP §1402.03(a).\u201d</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">A quick scan of the cited TMEP section reveals no such \u201cgenerally not accepted\u201d language, nor anything directed to \u201cor\u201d vs \u201cand.\u201d</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In this case, the original ID is \u201cdownloadable or recorded computer software,\u201d which, in my mind, is more clear than \u201cdownloadable and recorded computer
software\u201d because the latter could either mean that one kind software was either both downloadable and recorded, or available for either download or as a recorded version. The \u201cor\u201d version makes it clear the software is not both downloadable and recorded.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Am I all wet in thinking about challenging the Examiner on this one?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Seems like a waste of time in any case, but welcome other perspectives.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Steve Zemanick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Four Reasons Legal</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Denver, CO 80238</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:steve@fourreasonslegal.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">steve@fourreasonslegal.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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