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But how often does it work? It seems like the TTAB doesn't give the
argument much weight, but maybe that's because it's a weak theory by
the time it gets to the TTAB. Do people have success with the
argument with examining attorneys? How many references, and how
close, does it typically take?<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/24/2025 9:00 AM, Kevin Grierson
via E-trademarks wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And keep in mind you can use ThorCheck or a
similar service to rebut the relatedness argument by showing
that there are identical marks owned by different owners in
the same two categories the examiner said were related (this
is from a response to an office action I wrote a while back):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Just as examining
attorneys may use third-party registrations or web sites to
show relatedness of goods and services, \u201capplicants may submit
sets of third-party registrations to suggest the opposite,
i.e., that the Office has registered the same mark to
different parties for the goods at issue.\u201d
<i>In re G.B.I. Tile and Stone, Inc., </i>92 U.S.P.Q.2d 1366,
1369-70 (T.T.A.B. 2009). As explained more fully in another
case:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">By submitting the
third-party registrations, the Examining Attorney is
essentially asking us to draw the inference that when
different products are listed in the same registration, those
products may emanate from a single source. Applicant may
rebut this inference with evidence (e.g., a declaration from
counsel or a paralegal that he/she investigated the use of the
marks in the third-party registrations and could not find any
evidence that the registrants used the marks on both of the
products at issue and/or an equal or greater number of
third-party registrations owned by different entities for the
same or similar marks where each entity has registered its
mark for one of the goods at issue).
<i>In re</i> <i>Ayurvedic Concepts, Ltd., </i>Serial No.
78800436 (T.T.A.B. December 5, 2008)(non-precedential).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><i>In re Hyundai
Motor Am</i>., Serial No. 78889340 (T.T.A.B. September 14,
2009) (non-precedential) (\u201cthe fact that there are numerous
third-party registrations for similar marks owned by different
entities for tires and automobiles is consistent with the
conclusion that trademark owners in these respective
industries do not believe that there is a likelihood of
confusion between these marks for the listed goods.\u201d)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p
style="margin:0in"><b><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0F172E">Kevin Grierson</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:remialcxesans;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:template-5QSGLunPEem16QANOhMLNA;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:zone-1;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:zones-AQ;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0F172E"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p
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style="color:gray;text-decoration:none">kgrierson@cm.law</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in"><b><i><span
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(Body)",serif;color:gray"><a
href="https://www.cm.law/cm-law-formerly-culhane-meadows-launches-second-decade-with-fresh-name-and-modern-brand/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0F172E;text-decoration:none">Please note: Culhane Meadows is now CM Law</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
E-trademarks
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sam Castree via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 24, 2025 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for
laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Sam Castree <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sam@castreelaw.com"><sam@castreelaw.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Case citation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="text-align:center;line-height:12.0pt;background:red"
align="center">
<span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:white">EXTERNAL
EMAIL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">Dear Shabnam,</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">This question has come up
before, and </span></span><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">I<span class="gmaildefault">'ve
gathered several of these in a Word doc for when I
need them. Admittedly, a bunch of these are
non-prededential, but it should be enough to get
you started.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">(\u201c. . . although the Board had
before it a few registrations for both restaurant
services and beer, . . . the small number of such
registrations suggests that it is quite uncommon for
restaurants and beer to share the same trademark.\u201d)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">--<i>In re Coors Brewing Co.,</i>
68 U.S.P.Q.2d 1059, 1063 (Fed. Cir. 2003)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">\u201cWe have given no weight to those
third-party registrations for marks which are in the
nature of house marks, designer marks and
merchandising marks, as it is well-recognized that
such marks may be used for a wide variety of items,
and therefore they are of little value in showing
that the goods for which they are registered are all
related.\u201d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">--<i>In re Gebhard</i>, Serial
No. 78950320 (T.T.A.B. March 26, 2009)
(non-precedential)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">\u201cThird-party registrations in the
nature of house marks used for a wide variety of
items are of little value by themselves to show that
the various goods for which they are registered are
all related. Similarly, here where the website
evidence shows house marks used on a wide variety of
goods, it is not so probative of this factor.\u201d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span
class="gmaildefault"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">--</span></span><i><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">In re Marko Schuhfabrik GmbH</span></i><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">, Serial No. 79040612 (T.T.A.B.
December 23, 2009) (non-precedential).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">\u201c[M]any of the third-party
registrations are owned by supermarkets that sell
their own brand of virtually every product. In that
marketing milieu, consumers do not perceive the
supermarket house brand, appearing on a wide variety
of products, as necessarily signaling that all such
branded products are commercially related products.
Otherwise, giving such third-party registrations
probative value would in effect create a \u201cper se\u201d
rule that all products and services available in a
modern supermarket are related. In this regard, the
fact that applicant has applied to register a wide
variety of products does not change the perception
of consumers or give the third-party registrations
any added probative value.\u201d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"> --<i>In re Land O Sky, LLC</i>,
No. 76633815, 2010 WL 183227, at *6 (T.T.A.B. Jan.
4, 2010) (nonprecedential).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#222222">Cheers,</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#FF6600">Sam Castree,
III</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#FF6600">Sam
Castree Law, LLC</span></i><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#FF6600">3421 W.
Elm St.</span></i><span
style="color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#FF6600">McHenry,
IL 60050</span></i><span
style="color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#FF6600">(815)
344-6300</span></i><span
style="color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Feb 24, 2025 at 9:49<span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span>AM
Shabnam Malek via E-trademarks <<a
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello folks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am looking for a case
citation that says something along the lines of "the
mere fact that registrations cited by the EA include
both applicant's and the cited goods/services does
not mean those two things are necessarily related."
Any help is greatly appreciated. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Shabnam<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tw Cen
MT",sans-serif;color:black">Shabnam
Malek</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Raleway;color:#855E29">BRAND &
BRANCH, PC</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p
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style="background:#FEFEFE"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">1531
17th Ave.<br>
San Francisco,
CA 94122<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Raleway;color:#855E29">p:</span><span
style="font-family:Raleway;color:#6C6C6C"> </span><span
style="font-family:Raleway;color:black"><a
href="tel:%28510%29%20984-4285"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#1155CC">(510)
984-4285</span></a>
</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Raleway;color:#855E29">e: </span><span
style="font-family:Raleway;color:black"><a
href="mailto:shabnam@brandandbranch.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#1155CC">shabnam@brandandbranch.com</span></a></span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Raleway;color:#855E29">w:</span><span
style="font-family:Raleway;color:#103CC0"> <a
href="http://www.brandandbranch.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#1155CC">www.brandandbranch.com</span></a></span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Raleway-Regular;color:black">Have you heard about the
</span></b><b><span
style="font-family:Raleway-Regular;color:#855E29">International Cannabis
Bar
Association?</span></b><b><span
style="font-family:Raleway-Regular;color:black"> </span></b><b><span
style="font-family:Raleway-Regular;color:#386EFF"><a
href="http://www.canbar.org/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#1155CC">Check us out</span></a> </span></b><b><span
style="font-family:Raleway-Regular;color:black">and
use my name
MALEK for a
15% discount
on membership
and events.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
E-trademarks mailing list<br>
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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