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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">As Pam suggested, once you get to the TTAB, you have a major hill to climb:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">For example:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="http://thettablog.blogspot.com/2024/03/ttablog-test-is-ottos-for-soda-pops.html">The TTABlog<sup>®</sup>: TTABlog Test: Is OTTO'S for Soda Pops Confusable With
OTTO'S OATMEAL STOUT for Beer?</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Pointing to its 83 third-party registrations, C&D argued that the evidence "suggests that soda pops are instead the types of goods that are typically sold under the same
mark \u2026 by distinct owners" and "overwhelmingly suggests that the respective industries have agreed that soda pop/soft drinks and beer are not related."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The Board noted that more than 50 of the pairs include marks that differ by additional wording, design or stylization features that distinguish the marks. Furthermore, there
was no supporting evidence of any use of any of the marks that comprise the pairs. "There is also an absence of proof, such as by declaration or submission of copies of the relevant file histories, that no licenses or coexistence agreements are in place between
any of the paired registrants; or that they do not coexist because of limited geographic areas of actual use known to the owners of the involved registrations."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">\u201c[T]he fact that the Examining Attorney did not submit more third-party examples does not detract from the fact that this evidence reveals that beer and soda are often offered
by the same party under the same mark. The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit and Trademark Trial and Appeal Board have long recognized that "the PTO is an agency of limited resources" for obtaining evidence when examining applications for registration;
the practicalities of these limited resources are routinely taken into account when reviewing a trademark examining attorney\u2019s action.\u201d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">JLW<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">John L. Welch<span style="color:#0E74AE"><o:p></o:p></span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Senior Counsel</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#243745;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#243745;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Admitted to Practice:</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"> Massachusetts,
New York, and Washington, DC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><a href="mailto:jwelch@WolfGreenfield.com">jwelch<span lang="FR-CA">@WolfGreenfield.com</span></a></span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0E74AE;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#243745;text-transform:uppercase;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Tel. 617.646.8285</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;text-transform:uppercase;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#0E74AE;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Wolf, Greenfield & Sacks, P.C.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kevin Grierson via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 24, 2025 12:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kevin Grierson <kgrierson@cm.law><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Case citation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have used this argument successfully about half the times I make it. In the cases where I was successful, I was able to provide dramatically more citations than the examiner was (i.e. the examiner did their usual 3 cites, and I responded
with 40-50 counterexamples).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0F172E">Kevin Grierson</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:remialcxesans;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:template-5QSGLunPEem16QANOhMLNA;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:zone-1;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:zones-AQ;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0F172E"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p style="margin:0in"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri \(Body\)";color:gray"><a href="https://www.cm.law/cm-law-formerly-culhane-meadows-launches-second-decade-with-fresh-name-and-modern-brand/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0F172E;text-decoration:none">Please note: Culhane Meadows is now CM Law</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pamela Chestek via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 24, 2025 12:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Pamela Chestek <<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Case citation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:white">EXTERNAL EMAIL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">But how often does it work? It seems like the TTAB doesn't give the argument much weight, but maybe that's because it's a weak theory by the time it gets to the TTAB. Do people have success with the argument
with examining attorneys? How many references, and how close, does it typically take?<br>
<br>
Pam<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW MAILING ADDRESS<br>
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El Dorado Hills, CA 95762<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br>
<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.chesteklegal.com/">www.chesteklegal.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/24/2025 9:00 AM, Kevin Grierson via E-trademarks wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And keep in mind you can use ThorCheck or a similar service to rebut the relatedness argument by showing that there are identical marks owned by different owners in the same two categories the examiner said were related (this is from a
response to an office action I wrote a while back):<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Just as examining attorneys may use third-party registrations or web sites to show relatedness of goods and services, \u201capplicants may submit sets of third-party registrations to suggest the opposite, i.e., that
the Office has registered the same mark to different parties for the goods at issue.\u201d
<i>In re G.B.I. Tile and Stone, Inc., </i>92 U.S.P.Q.2d 1366, 1369-70 (T.T.A.B. 2009). As explained more fully in another case:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">By submitting the third-party registrations, the Examining Attorney is essentially asking us to draw the inference that when different products are listed in the same registration, those products may emanate from
a single source. Applicant may rebut this inference with evidence (e.g., a declaration from counsel or a paralegal that he/she investigated the use of the marks in the third-party registrations and could not find any evidence that the registrants used the
marks on both of the products at issue and/or an equal or greater number of third-party registrations owned by different entities for the same or similar marks where each entity has registered its mark for one of the goods at issue).
<i>In re</i> <i>Ayurvedic Concepts, Ltd., </i>Serial No. 78800436 (T.T.A.B. December 5, 2008)(non-precedential).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><i>In re Hyundai Motor Am</i>., Serial No. 78889340 (T.T.A.B. September 14, 2009) (non-precedential) (\u201cthe fact that there are numerous third-party registrations for similar marks owned by different entities for
tires and automobiles is consistent with the conclusion that trademark owners in these respective industries do not believe that there is a likelihood of confusion between these marks for the listed goods.\u201d)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0F172E">Kevin Grierson</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:remialcxesans;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:template-5QSGLunPEem16QANOhMLNA;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:zone-1;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:zones-AQ;color:white">\u200b</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Partner</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in"><a href="https://www.cm.law/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="130" height="50" style="width:1.35in;height:.5166in" id="Picture_x0020_4" src="cid:image009.png@01DB86B7.1A7F0230"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <a href="tel:757-726-7799" target="_blank"><span style="color:gray;text-decoration:none">757-726-7799</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <a href="fax:866-521-5663" target="_blank"><span style="color:gray;text-decoration:none">866-521-5663</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <a href="mailto:kgrierson@cm.law" target="_blank"><span style="color:gray;text-decoration:none">kgrierson@cm.law</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="https://www.cm.law/cm-law-formerly-culhane-meadows-launches-second-decade-with-fresh-name-and-modern-brand/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0F172E;text-decoration:none">Please note: Culhane Meadows is now CM Law</span></a></span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks
<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sam Castree via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 24, 2025 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Sam Castree <a href="mailto:sam@castreelaw.com"><sam@castreelaw.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Case citation?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:white">EXTERNAL EMAIL</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">Dear Shabnam,</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">This question has come up before, and </span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">I<span class="gmaildefault">'ve gathered several
of these in a Word doc for when I need them. Admittedly, a bunch of these are non-prededential, but it should be enough to get you started.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">(\u201c. . . although the Board had before it a few registrations for both restaurant services and beer, . . . the small number of such registrations suggests
that it is quite uncommon for restaurants and beer to share the same trademark.\u201d)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">--<i>In re Coors Brewing Co.,</i> 68 U.S.P.Q.2d 1059, 1063 (Fed. Cir. 2003)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">\u201cWe have given no weight to those third-party registrations for marks which are in the nature of house marks, designer marks and merchandising marks, as
it is well-recognized that such marks may be used for a wide variety of items, and therefore they are of little value in showing that the goods for which they are registered are all related.\u201d</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">--<i>In re Gebhard</i>, Serial No. 78950320 (T.T.A.B. March 26, 2009) (non-precedential)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">\u201cThird-party registrations in the nature of house marks used for a wide variety of items are of little value by themselves to show that the various goods
for which they are registered are all related. Similarly, here where the website evidence shows house marks used on a wide variety of goods, it is not so probative of this factor.\u201d</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">--</span></span><i><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">In re Marko Schuhfabrik GmbH</span></i><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">,
Serial No. 79040612 (T.T.A.B. December 23, 2009) (non-precedential).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif">\u201c[M]any of the third-party registrations are owned by supermarkets that sell their own brand of virtually every product. In that marketing milieu, consumers
do not perceive the supermarket house brand, appearing on a wide variety of products, as necessarily signaling that all such branded products are commercially related products. Otherwise, giving such third-party registrations probative value would in effect
create a \u201cper se\u201d rule that all products and services available in a modern supermarket are related. In this regard, the fact that applicant has applied to register a wide variety of products does not change the perception of consumers or give the third-party
registrations any added probative value.\u201d</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-msonospacing" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif"> --<i>In re Land O Sky, LLC</i>, No. 76633815, 2010 WL 183227, at *6 (T.T.A.B. Jan. 4, 2010) (nonprecedential).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sam Castree, III<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Sam Castree Law, LLC</i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i>3421 W. Elm St.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i>McHenry, IL 60050</i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i>(815) 344-6300</i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Feb 24, 2025 at 9:49<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span>AM Shabnam Malek via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello folks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am looking for a case citation that says something along the lines of "the mere fact that registrations cited by the EA include both applicant's and the cited goods/services does not mean those two things are necessarily related." Any
help is greatly appreciated. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Shabnam<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">Shabnam Malek</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Raleway;color:#855E29">BRAND & BRANCH, PC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#FEFEFE"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">1531 17th Ave.<br>
San Francisco, CA 94122</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Raleway;color:#855E29">p:</span><span style="font-family:Raleway;color:#6C6C6C"> </span><span style="font-family:Raleway;color:black"><a href="tel:%28510%29%20984-4285" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">(510)
984-4285</span></a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Raleway;color:#855E29">e: </span><span style="font-family:Raleway;color:black"><a href="mailto:shabnam@brandandbranch.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">shabnam@brandandbranch.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Raleway;color:#855E29">w:</span><span style="font-family:Raleway;color:#103CC0"> <a href="http://www.brandandbranch.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">www.brandandbranch.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Raleway-Regular",serif;color:black">Have you heard about the
</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Raleway-Regular",serif;color:#855E29">International Cannabis Bar Association?</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Raleway-Regular",serif;color:black"> </span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Raleway-Regular",serif;color:#386EFF"><a href="http://www.canbar.org/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">Check
us out</span></a> </span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Raleway-Regular",serif;color:black">and use my name MALEK for a 15% discount on membership and events.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
E-trademarks mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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