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John,
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<div>Beyond by thinking ability, but Is that not called reductio ad absurdum?
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in;"><b style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">PAUL D. SUPNIK<o:p></o:p></b></p>
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Tel: <span dir="ltr">310.859.0100</span> Fax: <span dir="ltr">310.388.5645</span><br>
Mobile: <span dir="ltr">310.990.3650</span></span></p>
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<span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Sent from my iPad</span></div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On Apr 23, 2025, at 2:41\u202fPM, Welch, John L. <John.Welch@wolfgreenfield.com> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">But what if the light fixture was returned because it didn\u2019t work?<br>
Was it really a light fixture in the first place?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If not, were the services rendered?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">JLW<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">John L. Welch<span style="color:#0E74AE"><o:p></o:p></span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Senior Counsel</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#243745;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#243745;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Admitted to Practice:</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"> Massachusetts,
New York, and Washington, DC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><a href="mailto:jwelch@WolfGreenfield.com">jwelch<span lang="FR-CA">@WolfGreenfield.com</span></a></span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0E74AE;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#243745;text-transform:uppercase;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Tel. 617.646.8285</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;text-transform:uppercase;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#0E74AE;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Wolf, Greenfield & Sacks, P.C.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Supnik via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 23, 2025 2:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Paul Supnik <paul@supnik.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Use in Commerce for a service when underlying product was returned and refunded<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If the original transaction was a legitimate arms length transaction, it was use in commerce. I do not think that the return has anything to do with this issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
on behalf of Frances Lippincott via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 23, 2025 2:17:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carl Oppedahl <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Frances Lippincott <<a href="mailto:lippincottip@gmail.com">lippincottip@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [E-trademarks] Use in Commerce for a service when underlying product was returned and refunded</span>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Can an applicant use the date of first use in commerce for a service, where the service was performed but the underlying product was later returned and refunded?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For example, say applicant provides design services. Customer orders a custom light fixture. The light is delivered and paid for (date of first use in commerce), but then is later returned to the designer and the customer is refunded.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Frances (Flann) Lippincott<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Lippincott IP LLC<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">475 Wall Street<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Princeton, NJ 08540<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Mail:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">166 Valley St. Bldg 6M Ste 103<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Providence, RI 02909<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(908) 507-5507 mobile<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:flann@lippincottip.com" target="_blank">flann@lippincottip.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.lippincottip.com/" target="_blank">www.lippincottip.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Intellectual property transactions and litigation. Licensed in NJ. Federal Practice.<br>
<i>This email address is for non-firm use. Content is mere opinion and is not proffered as legal advice. Please use
<a href="mailto:flann@lippincottip.com" target="_blank">flann@lippincottip.com</a> above for law-firm related correspondence. Thank you!
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