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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thank you, everyone, for the on- and off-list responses. They were very helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:black">Michael Eshaghian</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#9A9A9A">Attorney</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:black"><br>
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#E82528">Mesh IP Law, PC<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#9A9A9A">Van Nuys, CA 91401</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#9A9A9A">(213) 357-5668 call & text</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#9A9A9A"><a href="mailto:michael@meshiplaw.com"><span style="color:blue">michael@meshiplaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#9A9A9A"><a href="http://www.meshiplaw.com/"><span style="color:blue">www.MeshIPLaw.com</span></a>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Laura Geyer <lgeyer@ndgallilaw.com>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 28, 2025 12:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dale Quisenberry <dale@quisenberrylaw.com>; Michael Eshaghian <michael@meshiplaw.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Marks on Clothing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Michael:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Dale makes a good suggestion, and I would also add (and I\u2019m sure Dale meant this) that this kind of use needs to not be a one-off to please the office \u2013 have the client always put it on the label or other
place where brands go rather than across the front where something is likely said to be ornamental.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The other question you are asking is whether you can register a mark where there\u2019s a blank/swappable element that different words could go into. The answer is pretty much \u201cno\u201d now. These are called phantom
marks. The TMEP section explains that a mark with a blank in it does not provide adequate notice of what the mark is.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">John Welch wrote a nice blog entry about a precedential phantom mark refusal back in 2017. The office has not gotten more welcoming to them since this case, to my knowledge.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><a href="https://thettablog.blogspot.com/2017/05/precedential-no-12-return-of-phantom.html">https://thettablog.blogspot.com/2017/05/precedential-no-12-return-of-phantom.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Kindly,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Laura <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#174E86;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Laura Talley Geyer</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#333333;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"> |
</span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#666666;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Of Counsel</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#174E86;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#174E86;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">ND Galli Law LLC</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">1200 G Street, N.W., Ste 800<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Washington, DC 20005<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Tel: (202) 599-9019 (direct)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><a href="https://ndgallilaw.com/laura-geyer/"><span style="color:blue">https://ndgallilaw.com/laura-geyer/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><a href="https://ndgallilaw.com/"><span style="color:blue">https://ndgallilaw.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dale Quisenberry via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 28, 2025 12:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dale Quisenberry <<a href="mailto:dale@quisenberrylaw.com">dale@quisenberrylaw.com</a>>; Michael Eshaghian <<a href="mailto:michael@meshiplaw.com">michael@meshiplaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Marks on Clothing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#CC0000">EXTERNAL EMAIL</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Michael,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">One way to deal with the ornamentation issue is to place the mark on the shirt in an additional location, such as in the collar, or on a tag or label that is attached
to the shirt, or on the packaging that the shirt is shipped in.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Dale<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">C. Dale Quisenberry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Quisenberry Law PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">13910 Champion Forest Drive, Suite 203<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Houston, Texas 77069<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.5000 (office)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.1000 (mobile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.5555 (facsimile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.quisenberrylaw.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.quisenberrylaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> on behalf of Michael Eshaghian via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, 28 April 2025 at 10:58</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">\u202f</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">am<br>
<b>To: </b>For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Michael Eshaghian <<a href="mailto:michael@meshiplaw.com">michael@meshiplaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[E-trademarks] Marks on Clothing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi everyone,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">A potential client is looking to register a brand name and a slogan. She wants to put the brand name on the backs of sweatshirts.
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I\u2019m vaguely aware of some issues re ornamentality when it comes to putting marks on clothing. Is there a case or other source that lays out the law that I can review?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">She also wants to register a slogan in the form of THERE\u2019S ALWAYS TIME FOR ___ (not the actual slogan). She wants to put different words in the blank and also put those on the sweatshirts. Can I submit an
application with \u201c___\u201d and submit specimens with different words in the blank? </span>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thank you,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:black">Michael Eshaghian</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#9A9A9A">Attorney</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:black"><br>
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#E82528">Mesh IP Law, PC</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#9A9A9A">5632 Van Nuys Blvd. #1395</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#9A9A9A">Van Nuys, CA 91401</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#9A9A9A">(213) 357-5668 call & text</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#9A9A9A"><a href="mailto:michael@meshiplaw.com"><span style="color:blue">michael@meshiplaw.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:#9A9A9A"><a href="http://www.meshiplaw.com/"><span style="color:blue">www.MeshIPLaw.com</span></a>
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Montserrat;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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