<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
I often disagree with Ed, but it usually goes the other way around -
he supports the decision of the Office and I do not.<br>
<br>
In this case I think this is a perfectly reasonable descriptiveness
refusal. I don't suppose your objection is that the refusal is only
ascertainable by looking at the specimen - I expect that is why an
SOU goes back to the examining attorney, for a second look. It would
be very easy to game the system on descriptiveness if you could file
an application and never disclose how the mark is used in context.<br>
<br>
I also think that the fact that the item is packaged to appear as a
rose on a stem is a characteristic or feature of the product and
therefore the refusal is appropriate. The panties are packaged that
way that represents roses and the intention is that one use them in
ways that one would traditionally use roses. I would consider this a
feature of the product.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW MAILING ADDRESS<br>
4641 Post St.<br>
Unit 4316<br>
El Dorado Hills, CA 95762<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.chesteklegal.com">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/17/2025 4:54 PM, Edward Timberlake
via E-trademarks wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CABNf9SWHkFhNbCqU+BiSa8HoEJA7SauHa7FRPYdAbfE2YGX-yg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><span
style="font-family:georgia,serif">Personally, I'd be
inclined to say that one might be on solid ground arguing
that PANTYROSE BOUQUET does not merely describe either the
goods or the packaging i</span><font face="georgia, serif">n
that a non-zero amount of <span style="white-space:unset">imagination,
thought, or perception may be required to deduce what
PANTYROSE means in this context (not to mention a
BOUQUET of them).</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif">Sincerely,</font></div>
<div><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif">Ed
Timberlake </font></div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif"><i><a
href="https://www.nclawspecialists.gov/for-lawyers/certification-standard-summaries/trademark-law/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Board Certified Specialist in
Trademark Law</a></i></font></div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div
style="font-size:small">
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a
href="http://timberlakelaw.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><b>Timberlake
Law</b></a></div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif">Chapel
Hill, NC<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a
href="https://clarity.fm/edtimberlake" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Schedule
a call on
Clarity</a><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a
href="mailto:ed@timberlakelaw.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ed@timberlakelaw.com</a><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif">919.960.1950<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><img
src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zUm0zjuSoSf91b85RXakFjrbAqMcNkJek2_S8VO9eHNz9mDAX5u3RBN0aEhVODltVLqRN-NYsDzt7A"
moz-do-not-send="true" width="96" height="96"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at
7:22\u202fPM Scott Landsbaum via E-trademarks <<a
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Have you googled the examiner to see how in/experienced
s/he may be?</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8px">Regards,</span><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="color:rgb(102,102,204)"><font color="#000000">Scott</font></span></div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="color:rgb(102,102,204);font-size:12.7273px">Scott Landsbaum, Inc.</span></div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="color:rgb(102,102,204)"><a href="tel:323-314-7881"
value="+13233147881"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">323-314-7881</a> /
f 323-714-2454 </span></div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="color:rgb(102,102,204)">8306 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 420, Beverly
Hills, CA 90211</span></div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="font-size:12.8px;color:rgb(102,102,204)"><a
href="http://www.scottlandsbaum.com/"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.scottlandsbaum.com</a> / </span><font
color="#6666cc"><a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottlandsbaum/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.linkedin.com/in/scottlandsbaum/</a></font><br>
<br
style="color:rgb(102,102,204)">
<font
style="color:rgb(102,102,204)"
size="1">NOTICE: This
e-mail is intended
solely for the
individual or
individuals to whom it
is addressed and may
contain confidential
attorney-client
privileged information
and attorney work
product. If you are
not the intended
recipient, please do
not read, forward,
print, copy or
distribute it or any
of the information it
contains. Please
delete it immediately
and notify us by
return email or by
telephone at <a
href="tel:%28323%29%20314-7881"
value="+13233147881"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">(323)
314-7881</a>.<br>
<br>
IRS CIRCULAR 230
DISCLOSURE:<span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,255)"> </span></font><font
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,204)"
size="1">Any
discussion of tax
matters contained in
this or any email
(including any
attachments) or in any
oral or </font><font
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,204)"
size="1">other </font><font
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,204)"
size="1">written
communication is not
intended to be used
and cannot be used for
the purpose of
avoiding U.S. tax
related penalties or
in connection with the
promotion, marketing
or recommendation of
any of the matters
addressed in the
communication.</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at
3:34\u202fPM Jessica R. Friedman via E-trademarks <<a
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">Client
sells lingerie, each item of which is cleverly
packaged to resemble a rose on a stem, under the
mark PANTYROSE BOUQUET. There is no such thing
as a PANTYROSE and the word BOUQUET does not
describe lingerie. But the examiner has rejected
the application, saying,
</span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">\u201cThese
words merely describe applicant\u2019s lingerie in
that they are underpants for women packaged
decoratively to resemble a medley of roses, but
is [sic] instead a medley of lingerie.[?]
Moreover, applicant\u2019s specimen clearly shows
that its lingerie is packaged
</span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">to
resemble a bouquet of roses.\u201d
</span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">A
mark is merely descriptive if it describes an
ingredient, quality, characteristic, function,
feature, purpose or use of an applicant\u2019s
<b><i>goods or services </i></b>(and the
examiner actually cites this rule).<b><i>
</i></b>Is there some rule that I have just
never heard of that says that a mark is
descriptive if it describes a product\u2019s creative
<b><i>packaging</i></b>? </span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(10,47,65)"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(10,47,65)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Jessica
R. Friedman</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Attorney
at Law</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">300
East 59 Street, Ste. 2406</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">New
York, NY 10022</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Phone:
212-220-0900</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Cell:
917-647-1884</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">E-mail:</span><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:blue"> <u><a
href="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com"
title="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">jrfriedman@litproplaw.com</span></a></u></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">URL: </span><u><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:blue"><a
href="http://www.literarypropertylaw.com"
title="http://www.literarypropertylaw.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">www.literarypropertylaw.com</span></a></span></u><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)"> </span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:blue"><img
style="width: 1.9166in; height: 0.75in;"
id="m_7812105062623752761m_-4099055405743239116Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part1.NfoAVeC8.uCaXUWFt@chesteklegal.com"
alt="1479430908386_PastedImage" class=""
width="184" height="72" border="0"></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(10,47,65)"> </span></p>
<div
id="m_7812105062623752761m_-4099055405743239116mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<div>
<div>
<div
id="m_7812105062623752761m_-4099055405743239116x_Signature">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
E-trademarks mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
-- <br>
E-trademarks mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>