<div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">It seems to me that, at least for the purposes of registration, there's an important distinction between descriptive (which is capable of registration on the Principal Register) and merely descriptive (which isn't). </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Perhaps influenced by the fact that I do not wear and therefore do not typically shop for panties, I'd personally still be inclined to consider PANTYROSE as descriptive for panties packaged to appear as roses, but (perhaps influenced by the play on words with pantyhose) not merely so.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Use of the mark as PANTY ROSE, on the other hand, would strike me as less distinctive, and, of course, any instances of disclaimers on record (for either PANTYROSE or PANTYROSE) would argue strongly in the direction of mere descriptiveness.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></span></div><div><font face="georgia, serif" size="2">Sincerely,</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif" size="2"><br></font></div><div><div style="font-size:small"><font face="georgia, serif" size="2">Ed Timberlake </font></div><div style="font-size:small"><font face="georgia, serif" size="2"><i><a href="https://www.nclawspecialists.gov/for-lawyers/certification-standard-summaries/trademark-law/" target="_blank">Board Certified Specialist in Trademark Law</a></i></font></div><div style="font-size:small"><font face="georgia, serif" size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-size:small"><div style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a href="http://timberlakelaw.com/" target="_blank"><b>Timberlake Law</b></a></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif">Chapel Hill, NC<br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a href="https://clarity.fm/edtimberlake" target="_blank">Schedule a call on Clarity</a><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a href="mailto:ed@timberlakelaw.com" target="_blank">ed@timberlakelaw.com</a><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif">919.960.1950<br></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><img width="96" height="96" src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zUm0zjuSoSf91b85RXakFjrbAqMcNkJek2_S8VO9eHNz9mDAX5u3RBN0aEhVODltVLqRN-NYsDzt7A"><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at 1:12\u202fPM Pamela Chestek via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
That doesn't trouble me too much. You are likely to buy multiples to
create a bouquet (that's the suggestion in the trademark itself). It
is a bit hard to pin to a doctrine, but if the trademark is
registered, won't it prevent anyone else from being able to use the
same idea for packaging? What else would you call a single item
packaged that way, or a collection of the items? I see a slew of
cease and desist letters sent for the descriptive use by
competitors.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div>Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW MAILING ADDRESS<br>
4641 Post St.<br>
Unit 4316<br>
El Dorado Hills, CA 95762<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br>
<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" target="_blank">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.chesteklegal.com" target="_blank">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>On 6/18/2025 9:50 AM, Jessica R.
Friedman wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt" dir="ltr">
Pam, even though each package is a single \u201crose\u201d and the
client does not sell packages of multiple items of lingerie?
I do not think a single rose constitutes a bouquet.</div>
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<div id="m_5296923799304088306ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div style="direction:ltr">Jessica R. Friedman</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Attorney at Law</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">(917) 647-1884</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><a href="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com" target="_blank">jrfriedman@litproplaw.com</a></div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><a href="http://www.literarypropertylaw.com" target="_blank">www.literarypropertylaw.com</a></div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_5296923799304088306divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
E-trademarks <a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
on behalf of Pamela Chestek via E-trademarks
<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 18, 2025 5:43:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>
<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Pamela Chestek <a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" target="_blank"><pamela@chesteklegal.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] descriptiveness objection
based on packaging?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>I often disagree with Ed, but it usually goes the other way
around - he supports the decision of the Office and I do not.<br>
<br>
In this case I think this is a perfectly reasonable
descriptiveness refusal. I don't suppose your objection is that
the refusal is only ascertainable by looking at the specimen - I
expect that is why an SOU goes back to the examining attorney,
for a second look. It would be very easy to game the system on
descriptiveness if you could file an application and never
disclose how the mark is used in context.<br>
<br>
I also think that the fact that the item is packaged to appear
as a rose on a stem is a characteristic or feature of the
product and therefore the refusal is appropriate. The panties
are packaged that way that represents roses and the intention is
that one use them in ways that one would traditionally use
roses. I would consider this a feature of the product.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div>Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW MAILING ADDRESS<br>
4641 Post St.<br>
Unit 4316<br>
El Dorado Hills, CA 95762<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br>
<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" target="_blank">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.chesteklegal.com" target="_blank">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>On 6/17/2025 4:54 PM, Edward
Timberlake via E-trademarks wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">Personally, I'd be
inclined to say that one might be on solid ground
arguing that PANTYROSE BOUQUET does not merely
describe either the goods or the packaging i</span><font face="georgia, serif">n that a non-zero amount of <span style="white-space:unset">imagination, thought, or
perception may be required to deduce what PANTYROSE
means in this context (not to mention a BOUQUET of
them).</span></font></div>
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<div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font size="2" face="georgia,
serif">Sincerely,</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="georgia,
serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:small"><font size="2" face="georgia,
serif">Ed
Timberlake </font></div>
<div style="font-size:small"><font size="2" face="georgia,
serif"><i><a href="https://www.nclawspecialists.gov/for-lawyers/certification-standard-summaries/trademark-law/" target="_blank">Board Certified Specialist in
Trademark Law</a></i></font></div>
<div style="font-size:small"><font size="2" face="georgia,
serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div style="font-size:small">
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a href="http://timberlakelaw.com/" target="_blank"><b>Timberlake
Law</b></a></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif">Chapel
Hill, NC<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a href="https://clarity.fm/edtimberlake" target="_blank">Schedule
a call on
Clarity</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a href="mailto:ed@timberlakelaw.com" target="_blank">ed@timberlakelaw.com</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif">919.960.1950<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><img src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zUm0zjuSoSf91b85RXakFjrbAqMcNkJek2_S8VO9eHNz9mDAX5u3RBN0aEhVODltVLqRN-NYsDzt7A" width="96" height="96"><br>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at
7:22\u202fPM Scott Landsbaum via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Have you googled the examiner to see how
in/experienced s/he may be?</div>
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</span></div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8px">Regards,</span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,204)"><font color="#000000">Scott</font></span></div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,204);font-size:12.7273px">Scott Landsbaum,
Inc.</span></div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,204)"><a href="tel:323-314-7881" value="+13233147881" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">323-314-7881</a> / f
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jun 17, 2025
at 3:34\u202fPM Jessica R. Friedman via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">Client sells lingerie,
each item of which is cleverly packaged to
resemble a rose on a stem, under the mark
PANTYROSE BOUQUET. There is no such thing as
a PANTYROSE and the word BOUQUET does not
describe lingerie. But the examiner has
rejected the application, saying,
</span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">\u201cThese words merely
describe applicant\u2019s lingerie in that they
are underpants for women packaged
decoratively to resemble a medley of roses,
but is [sic] instead a medley of
lingerie.[?] Moreover, applicant\u2019s specimen
clearly shows that its lingerie is packaged
</span>
<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">to resemble a bouquet
of roses.\u201d
</span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">A mark is merely
descriptive if it describes an ingredient,
quality, characteristic, function, feature,
purpose or use of an applicant\u2019s
<b><i>goods or services </i></b>(and the
examiner actually cites this rule).<b><i>
</i></b>Is there some rule that I have
just never heard of that says that a mark is
descriptive if it describes a product\u2019s
creative
<b><i>packaging</i></b>? </span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(10,47,65)"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(10,47,65)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Jessica R. Friedman</span><span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Attorney at Law</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">300 East 59 Street,
Ste. 2406</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">New York, NY 10022</span><span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Phone: 212-220-0900</span><span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Cell: 917-647-1884</span><span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">E-mail:</span><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:blue"> <u><a href="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com" title="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">jrfriedman@litproplaw.com</span></a></u></span><span></span></p>
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