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Are you making a distinction between a space and no space? <br>
<br>
I'm not convinced by the argument that "pantyrose" is a play on
words that is so apparent that it comes to mind to the purchaser
when viewing the goods. If it was pantyhose that was in the shape of
a rose, then yes, but not panties. It's just a compound word to me.<br>
<br>
One <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rose">definition</a>
of "rose" is "something resembling a rose in form." There are paper
roses, compass roses and rose windows. When we say [noun] rose, it
is telling you that the object is in the shape of a rose. These are
panties that are sold resembling a rose in form. I just don't know
what else you could call them if you want to describe their packaged
appearance. <br>
<br>
Today's <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://thettablog.blogspot.com/2025/06/wyha-ttab-finds-docretention-merely.html">TTABlog</a>
post has exactly the arguments why this use is descriptive - you
have to look at the mark in the context of the goods; just because
no one has used the term before doesn't mean it's not descriptive.
This is just not one that I think is outrageously wrong, especially
not compared to the whoppers we seem to be seeing more and more of.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW MAILING ADDRESS<br>
4641 Post St.<br>
Unit 4316<br>
El Dorado Hills, CA 95762<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.chesteklegal.com">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/19/2025 6:13 PM, Edward Timberlake
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CABNf9SXrz0M8g7Tya1kkwqhezy8zb15MxivEZA7SFMX207wi_Q@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">It seems
to me that, at least for the purposes of registration,
there's an important distinction between descriptive (which
is capable of registration on the Principal Register) and
merely descriptive (which isn't). </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Perhaps
influenced by the fact that I do not wear and therefore do
not typically shop for panties, I'd personally still be
inclined to consider PANTYROSE as descriptive for panties
packaged to appear as roses, but (perhaps influenced by the
play on words with pantyhose) not merely so.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Use of the
mark as PANTY ROSE, on the other hand, would strike me as
less distinctive, and, of course, any instances of
disclaimers on record (for either PANTYROSE or PANTYROSE)
would argue strongly in the direction of mere
descriptiveness.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
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<div><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif">Sincerely,</font></div>
<div><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif">Ed
Timberlake </font></div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif"><i><a
href="https://www.nclawspecialists.gov/for-lawyers/certification-standard-summaries/trademark-law/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Board Certified Specialist in
Trademark Law</a></i></font></div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div
style="font-size:small">
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a
href="http://timberlakelaw.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><b>Timberlake
Law</b></a></div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif">Chapel
Hill, NC<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a
href="https://clarity.fm/edtimberlake" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Schedule
a call on
Clarity</a><br>
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style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a
href="mailto:ed@timberlakelaw.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ed@timberlakelaw.com</a><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif">919.960.1950<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at
1:12\u202fPM Pamela Chestek via E-trademarks <<a
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> That doesn't trouble me too much. You are likely to buy
multiples to create a bouquet (that's the suggestion in the
trademark itself). It is a bit hard to pin to a doctrine,
but if the trademark is registered, won't it prevent anyone
else from being able to use the same idea for packaging?
What else would you call a single item packaged that way, or
a collection of the items? I see a slew of cease and desist
letters sent for the descriptive use by competitors.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div>Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW MAILING ADDRESS<br>
4641 Post St.<br>
Unit 4316<br>
El Dorado Hills, CA 95762<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br>
<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.chesteklegal.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>On 6/18/2025 9:50 AM, Jessica R. Friedman wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div
style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"
dir="ltr"> Pam, even though each package is a single
\u201crose\u201d and the client does not sell packages of
multiple items of lingerie? I do not think a single
rose constitutes a bouquet.</div>
</div>
<div
id="m_5296923799304088306ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line"
dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div id="m_5296923799304088306ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div style="direction:ltr">Jessica R. Friedman</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Attorney at Law</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">(917) 647-1884</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><a
href="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jrfriedman@litproplaw.com</a></div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><a
href="http://www.literarypropertylaw.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.literarypropertylaw.com</a></div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_5296923799304088306divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><b>From:</b> E-trademarks <a
href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
on behalf of Pamela Chestek via E-trademarks <a
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 18, 2025 5:43:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>
<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Pamela Chestek <a
href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><pamela@chesteklegal.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] descriptiveness
objection based on packaging?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>I often disagree with Ed, but it usually goes the
other way around - he supports the decision of the
Office and I do not.<br>
<br>
In this case I think this is a perfectly reasonable
descriptiveness refusal. I don't suppose your objection
is that the refusal is only ascertainable by looking at
the specimen - I expect that is why an SOU goes back to
the examining attorney, for a second look. It would be
very easy to game the system on descriptiveness if you
could file an application and never disclose how the
mark is used in context.<br>
<br>
I also think that the fact that the item is packaged to
appear as a rose on a stem is a characteristic or
feature of the product and therefore the refusal is
appropriate. The panties are packaged that way that
represents roses and the intention is that one use them
in ways that one would traditionally use roses. I would
consider this a feature of the product.<br>
<br>
Pam<br>
<br>
<div>Pamela S. Chestek<br>
Chestek Legal<br>
PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW MAILING ADDRESS<br>
4641 Post St.<br>
Unit 4316<br>
El Dorado Hills, CA 95762<br>
+1 919-800-8033<br>
<a href="mailto:pamela@chesteklegal.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">pamela@chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.chesteklegal.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.chesteklegal.com</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>On 6/17/2025 4:54 PM, Edward Timberlake via
E-trademarks wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div style="font-size:small"><span
style="font-family:georgia,serif">Personally,
I'd be inclined to say that one might be on
solid ground arguing that PANTYROSE BOUQUET
does not merely describe either the goods or
the packaging i</span><font face="georgia,
serif">n that a non-zero amount of <span
style="white-space:unset">imagination,
thought, or perception may be required to
deduce what PANTYROSE means in this context
(not to mention a BOUQUET of them).</span></font></div>
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<div><span
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif">Sincerely,</font></div>
<div><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif">Ed
Timberlake </font></div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif"><i><a
href="https://www.nclawspecialists.gov/for-lawyers/certification-standard-summaries/trademark-law/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Board Certified Specialist in
Trademark Law</a></i></font></div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><font
size="2"
face="georgia,
serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div
style="font-size:small">
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a
href="http://timberlakelaw.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><b>Timberlake
Law</b></a></div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif">Chapel
Hill, NC<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a
href="https://clarity.fm/edtimberlake" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Schedule
a call on
Clarity</a><br>
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style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a
href="mailto:ed@timberlakelaw.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ed@timberlakelaw.com</a><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:georgia,serif">919.960.1950<br>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 7:22\u202fPM Scott
Landsbaum via E-trademarks <<a
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Have you googled the examiner to see how
in/experienced s/he may be?</div>
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</span></div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8px">Regards,</span><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="color:rgb(102,102,204)"><font color="#000000">Scott</font></span></div>
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style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 3:34\u202fPM
Jessica R. Friedman via E-trademarks <<a
href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">Client
sells lingerie, each item of which
is cleverly packaged to resemble a
rose on a stem, under the mark
PANTYROSE BOUQUET. There is no such
thing as a PANTYROSE and the word
BOUQUET does not describe lingerie.
But the examiner has rejected the
application, saying, </span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">\u201cThese
words merely describe applicant\u2019s
lingerie in that they are underpants
for women packaged decoratively to
resemble a medley of roses, but is
[sic] instead a medley of
lingerie.[?] Moreover, applicant\u2019s
specimen clearly shows that its
lingerie is packaged </span> <span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">to resemble
a bouquet of roses.\u201d </span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)"></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(22,62,100)">A
mark is merely descriptive if it
describes an ingredient, quality,
characteristic, function, feature,
purpose or use of an applicant\u2019s <b><i>goods
or services </i></b>(and the
examiner actually cites this rule).<b><i>
</i></b>Is there some rule that I
have just never heard of that says
that a mark is descriptive if it
describes a product\u2019s creative <b><i>packaging</i></b>?
</span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(10,47,65)"></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(10,47,65)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Jessica
R. Friedman</span><span></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Attorney
at Law</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">300
East 59 Street, Ste. 2406</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">New
York, NY 10022</span><span></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Phone:
212-220-0900</span><span></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">Cell:
917-647-1884</span><span></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">E-mail:</span><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:blue"> <u><a
href="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com"
title="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">jrfriedman@litproplaw.com</span></a></u></span><span></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)">URL: </span><u><span
style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:blue"><a
href="http://www.literarypropertylaw.com"
title="http://www.literarypropertylaw.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">www.literarypropertylaw.com</span></a></span></u><span></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,102)"> </span><span></span></p>
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alt="1479430908386_PastedImage"
style="width: 1.9166in;
height: 0.75in;" class=""
width="184" height="72"
border="0"></span><span></span></p>
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