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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">One of/the usual justification for translating is to protect non-English speakers in the US. Assuming that they will translate one into the other any time they see it. I
am actually working on an article now on that false premise . . . but now that there is a S. Ct. case . . . it will be interesting.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Jasmine Abdel-khalik<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Professor, UMKC School of Law</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sam Castree via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 10, 2025 3:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Sam Castree <sam@castreelaw.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] VETEMENTS case going up to SCOTUS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">I studied French for years in high school and college, so while </span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">I'm not
fluent by any means, but I can get by.<span class="gmaildefault"> And I can't ever remember encountering the word "veuve."
</span>I could tell that it was <i>a</i> French word, but I didn't know what it meant.<span class="gmaildefault"> For whatever that's worth.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Cheers,</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#FF6600">Sam Castree, III</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#FF6600">Sam Castree Law, LLC</span></i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#FF6600">3421 W. Elm St.</span></i><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#FF6600">McHenry, IL 60050</span></i><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#FF6600">(815) 344-6300</span></i><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 1:41<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span>PM Welch, John L. via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The CAFC said this:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">\u201c[T]he word in question [VETEMENTS] is a simple and common word\u2014the word for clothing. On the other hand, \u201cwidow\u201d
requires a more advanced vocabulary. This, therefore, distinguishes this case from the aspect of
<i>Palm Bay </i>that was premised on \u201can appreciable number of purchasers [being] unlikely to be aware that VEUVE means \u2018widow\u2019\u201d in French, and therefore \u201cunlikely to translate the marks into English.\u201d
<i>Palm Bay</i>, 396 F.3d at 1377 (emphasis omitted) (citation omitted).\u201d</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Do we have any French speakers out there? Is \u201cveuve\u201d an obscure word?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">PS:
<i>Palm Bay</i> was a likelihood of confusion case [not a genericness (or descriptiveness) case] in which the mark VEUVE ROYALE was found to be confusingly similar to VEUVE CLIQUOT for wine, but THE WIDOW was not confusingly similar, since consumers would not
translate VEUVE as WIDOW..</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">JLW</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif">John L. Welch</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jessica R. Friedman via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 10, 2025 11:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jessica R. Friedman <<a href="mailto:jrfriedman@litproplaw.com" target="_blank">jrfriedman@litproplaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [E-trademarks] VETEMENTS case going up to SCOTUS</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#0A2F41"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/04/world/europe/vetements-trademark-lawsuit.html" target="_blank">https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/04/world/europe/vetements-trademark-lawsuit.html</a>
raises a few questions for me:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The NY Times reporter analogizes the registration of VEUVE CLIQUOT, which means \u201cwidow cliquot\u201d and refers to the company matriarch, for champagne, to the registration of VETEMENTS, which in French means clothing,
for clothing. Is that an analogy the applicant has actually made, or is this just the usual ignorance of NY Times articles when it comes to IP?</span><o:p></o:p></li></ol>
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<span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The PTO refused registration on the ground that the mark is merely descriptive and that it appears to be generic. How can it be both?
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<span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The applicant\u2019s response to the OA included the argument that \u201cvetements\u201d referred only to clothing as a category, while they are applying to register specific items of clothing:</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
\u201c</span><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Although the word \u201cclothing\u201d may have a relationship to an overall category of products, it is not the descriptive (nor generic) term for any specific item. A purchaser would not say they want to \u201cbuy
a clothing.\u201d Further, when the mark VETEMENTS is encountered an observer would first have to undertake translation of the word, and then draw a relationship to a specific item such as a sweatshirt\u201d.
</span></i><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I understand that we have to try any and every credible argument, but that one doesn\u2019t strike me as falling into that category.
</span><o:p></o:p></li></ol>
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