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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">This office action does not have a “MAIL DATE” on the face of the office action (PTOL-90A).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">It does have a NOTIFICATION DATE, however.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><img width="182" height="81" style="width:1.8958in;height:.8437in" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image001.png@01DA2202.70DC3690"></span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">We understand that the Notification Date listed on the PTOL-90A form is the controlling date, but wish the USPTO made things easier for us by not providing four different dates
each way you look at it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">That leads to confusion and potential docketing error (although at least that error would be on the safe side, meaning earlier rather than later and thus still within the SSP).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">There is also risk of issues with the USPTO and not just with an examiner.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">I can, for example, foresee some helpful USPTO person helping themselves to an extension of time fee that is not needed and then having to go through the process of requesting a
refund.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim Larsen <jim@larsen-ip.com>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 28, 2023 1:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For bug reports, feature requests, and tips and tricks about Patent Center. <patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Alan Taboada <ataboada@mtiplaw.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Patent Center Fun with Numbers - Image Date, Mailing Date; Notification Date; Filename Date<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The “MAIL DATE” on the face of the office action (PTOL-90A) is the only relevant start date for the statutory period, consistent with the identified Federal Register entry and
multiple MPEP sections. I think it would be clearly arguable if any other interpretation was championed by an examiner, and I’ve never had an issue filing a response on that MAIL DATE.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">E.g.:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><img width="164" height="65" style="width:1.7083in;height:.677in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image004.png@01DA2201.E1B8FE80"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <br>
James C. Larsen<br>
Attorney<br>
Larsen IP PLLC<br>
p: 425.298.6846<br>
e: <a href="mailto:jim@Larsen-IP.com">jim@Larsen-IP.com</a><br>
w. <a href="https://link.edgepilot.com/s/ea51d830/ejnp8Q2RSEuN8kdopKkfog?u=http://www.larsen-ip.com/">https://link.edgepilot.com/s/ea51d830/ejnp8Q2RSEuN8kdopKkfog?u=http://www.larsen-ip.com/</a><br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Patentcenter <<a href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com">patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> on behalf of Alan Taboada via Patentcenter <<a href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 10:10 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a> <<a href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Alan Taboada <<a href="mailto:ataboada@mtiplaw.com">ataboada@mtiplaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Patentcenter] Patent Center Fun with Numbers - Image Date, Mailing Date; Notification Date; Filename Date<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">All –</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I believe this was discussed previously, but not sure to what extent.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I am looking at an office action from the USPTO right now and I see the following dates in Patent Center all associated with this single office action.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Apparently, this office action has:</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A “Date Mailed” of 17 November 2023;</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A “Notification Date” of 11/22/2023;</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">An “Image Date” in the Correspondence section of Patent Center of 11/20/2023; and</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The filename of the document when downloaded includes a date stamp of 11-21-2023</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">So that same document apparently has four different dates associated with it (November 17, 20, 21, and 22).</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The USPTO Correspondence Notification emailed to us indicating this office action arrived on 11/22 and includes a “Mailroom Date” field of 11/22 – the same as the “Notification Date” on the action.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I believe that the shortened statutory period should run from the date we were notified of the action, and not the phony “Date Mailed” that was 5 days earlier.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">However, the Action explicitly states that the shortened statutory period runs from the MAILING DATE (the earliest listed date), rather than the date we were actually notified of the Action.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A quick internet search yielded this Federal Register citation from April 5, 2023 relating to the Patent Center Electronic Office Action Program (<a href="https://link.edgepilot.com/s/f3b5eec4/OOL911VLU0OUtjiI0c_U2Q?u=https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/04/05/2023-07087/patent-center-electronic-office-action-program">https://link.edgepilot.com/s/f3b5eec4/OOL911VLU0OUtjiI0c_U2Q?u=https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/04/05/2023-07087/patent-center-electronic-office-action-program</a>).</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The notice states:</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<h3 style="text-indent:.5in">4. When does the time period for reply start?<o:p></o:p></h3>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in" id="p-26"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Generally, any time period for reply set forth in the Office communication will commence on the mailroom/notification date indicated on the form PTOL–90 accompanying the
Office communication. The mailroom/notification date is treated like the mailing date of a paper communication. More specifically, for Office actions under
<a href="https://link.edgepilot.com/s/857355b2/9enrMI7jGkWvnbD5vyGMQw?u=https://www.govinfo.gov/link/uscode/35/132" target="_blank">
35 U.S.C. 132(a)</a>, the mailroom/notification date is the date of the notice under
<a href="https://link.edgepilot.com/s/4c540b34/e2N4lwWA8kOlERYDWpwLnQ?u=https://www.govinfo.gov/link/uscode/35/133" target="_blank">
35 U.S.C. 133</a>. See Electronic Office Action, 1343 Off. Gaz. Pat. Office at 46. The mailroom/notification date will also be considered the date of mailing of the correspondence for all other purposes (
<em><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">e.g.,</span></em><a href="https://link.edgepilot.com/s/438ff2d6/FrsD_jMU30C9dK_0XOsJ_w?u=https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-37/section-1.71%23p-1.71(g)(2)" target="_blank">37 CFR 1.71(g)(2)</a>,
<a href="https://link.edgepilot.com/s/4cd7f66d/Wo-0sJHaKU2mGyHVfeAM2g?u=https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-37/section-1.97%23p-1.97(b)" target="_blank">
1.97(b)</a>, <a href="https://link.edgepilot.com/s/dccec34f/iDzBiX6hbk6OMmV79ywzkA?u=https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-37/section-1.701" target="_blank">
1.701</a>–1.705). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">So I think it is correct that the shortened statutory period runs from the Notification Date, but still feel nervous about potential problems if this response is submitted beyond a date calculated
from the earlier Mailing Date.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Perhaps there are good reasons to have all of these different dates from the USPTO’s perspective.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">However, from a practitioner’s perspective, I would think that all of these dates are irrelevant except for the Notification Date – which is the only date that matters.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Do I care when the Examiner supposedly completed work and stamped a “Mailing Date” on the action?</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Do I care when the USPTO scans the image?</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Do I care about the date in the filename of the document saved in Patent Center?</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I think the answer to all of those are: No, I do not care in the least.
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">That being the case, it would be helpful for all of those other dates to be hidden from my view to prevent confusion or worse, docketing errors.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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