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I have done some looking generally and it seems that this may fall
under the issue of defining the "scope of representation" and, if
so, then you can get "informed consent' (<i>i.e.</i>, a waiver) if
the client is fully, honestly and completely informed of the risks,
but nevertheless chooses to proceed. The example apparently
typically given is a case where the client is entering into a merger
transaction and asks you to simply draw up a simple agreement that
says they are merging with the entity, the payment to be made and
what they get. You advise the client, in writing, of all the risks
of not doing due diligence or including appropriate reps and
warranties, etc. and they tell you, in effect, we don't care, just
draw up t he agreement as we asked. If the merger has problems
because of, fore example, a major problem that would have turned up
but for the lack of due diligence, if sued for malpractice, the
lawyer will be exonerated on implied waiver after informed consent.
Even better if you get it in writing signed by them that they are
having you act contrary to your legal advice and you spell out all
of the risks that they are undertaking as a result.<br>
<br>
Model Rule 1.2 ("Scope of Representation & Allocation of
Authority Between Client & Lawyer"): "A lawyer may limit the
scope of the representation if the limitation is reasonable under
the circumstances and the client gives informed consent[;]"<br>
<br>
Obviously, this is a general position under the Model Rules, and
each attorney should check their specific state rules and associated
comments and decisions regarding informed consent with respect for a
prospective waiver of attorney malpractice.<br>
<br>
As stated by the American Law Institute in the Restatement (Third)
of the Law Governing Lawyers:<br>
<blockquote>When a client is to make a decision, a lawyer must bring
to the client's<br>
attention the need for the decision to be made, unless the client
has given<br>
contrary instructions .. . . Before a client signs a contract, . .
. the lawyer<br>
ordinarily should explain its provisions.... The lawyer [also]
ordinarily must<br>
explain the pros and cons of reasonably available alternatives.
The<br>
appropriate detail depends on such factors as the importance of
the decision,<br>
how much advice the client wants, what the client has already
learned and<br>
considered, and the time available for deliberation.<br>
</blockquote>
RESTATEMENT (THIRD) OF THE L. GOVERNING LAWS. 20 cmt. e (AM. L.
INST. 2000)<br>
<br>
It appears that, in NJ (although I have more research to do on the
point), such a waiver WILL be enforced.<br>
<br>
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</style><span class="c1"><strong>Richard Straussman</strong></span><span
class="c3"><span class="c2"><strong><br>
</strong></span> </span><strong><span class="c4">Senior
Counsel</span><span class="c5"><strong><br>
</strong></span> <span class="c6">Registered Patent Attorney</span><span
class="c5"><br>
</span></strong> <span class="c6">Member NY, NJ & CT Bars</span><span
class="c5"><br>
</span> <span class="c7"><strong>. . . . . . . . . . . . . .</strong></span>
<span class="c8"></span> <span class="c5"><br>
</span> <span class="c9"><strong>Weitzman Law Offices, LLC</strong></span><span
class="c16"><span class="c5"><br>
</span> <span class="c9"><strong>Intellectual Property Law</strong></span><span
class="c9"><br>
</span> <span class="c4">425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401
(PLEASE NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)</span><span class="c5"><br>
</span> <span class="c4">Roseland, NJ 07068</span><span
class="c11"><br>
</span> <span class="c12"><strong>direct line</strong></span> <span
class="c6">973.403.9943<br>
</span> <span class="c12"><strong>main</strong></span> <span
class="c6">973.403.9940<br>
</span> <span class="c12"><strong>fax</strong></span><span
class="c12"></span> <span class="c6">973.403.9944</span><span
class="c11"><br>
</span> <span class="c12"><strong>e-mail</strong></span><span
class="c6"></span> <span class="c13"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a></span><span
class="c11"><br>
<br>
</span> <span class="c14"><strong><a
href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a><br>
</strong></span> <span class="c15"><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
</span>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/18/2024 4:32 PM, David Boundy
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJwugqEvuCZNvrvi8vRD-kC=KGreJm7yQxHjefR5CJJukUPk-w@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>ABA Rule 1.8(h) says you can only get a waiver of liability
<i><b>if the client has independent counsel</b></i>. Note
that for other waivers, you can simply recommend independent
counsel. To waive liability, the independent representation
has to be actual.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My firm's policy is "Here is the parade of horribles. If
you instruct us to file in DOCX, you acknowledge the risks."
The client can still sue us. We have the defense that we
informed the client of the risk.<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at
4:16 PM Richard Straussman <<a
href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> <font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Point taken,
although if you clearly spell it out the limitation of
what you are reviewing and why it is not reliable due to
what the PTO does, I am not sure that there is an implied
warranty - especially if they acknowledge that they are
acting expressly contrary to your advice, and that you are
doing it as a "courtesy" and the charge is simply because
time must be expended to do so, even though it may be
futile.<br>
<br>
I am still investigating if NY and NJ law allows one to
absolve oneself in this type of manner from liability. If
not, then it is PDF and pay the fee or get new counsel. <br>
<br>
BTW - virtually all of my clients qualify as "small
entity" so they only face a $160 charge, so if cost is a
factor, they WILL always opt for the PDF route, as it will
always be cheaper. The "large entity" clients will follow
my advice.<br>
<br>
</font>
<div> <span><strong>Richard Straussman</strong></span><span><span><strong><br>
</strong></span> </span><strong><span>Senior Counsel</span><span><strong><br>
</strong></span> <span>Registered Patent Attorney</span><span><br>
</span></strong> <span>Member NY, NJ & CT Bars</span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>. . . . . . . . . . . . . .</strong></span>
<span></span> <span><br>
</span> <span><strong>Weitzman Law Offices, LLC</strong></span><span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>Intellectual Property Law</strong></span><span><br>
</span> <span>425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401 (PLEASE
NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)</span><span><br>
</span> <span>Roseland, NJ 07068</span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>direct line</strong></span> <span>973.403.9943<br>
</span> <span><strong>main</strong></span> <span>973.403.9940<br>
</span> <span><strong>fax</strong></span><span></span>
<span>973.403.9944</span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>e-mail</strong></span><span></span>
<span><a href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a></span><span><br>
<br>
</span> <span><strong><a
href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a><br>
</strong></span> <span><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
</span> </div>
<div>On 1/18/2024 4:06 PM, David Boundy wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I would not take the approach Rich recommends. If
you charge for proofreading, you give an implied
warranty.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But you cannot warrant this. Because of the
inherent design of DOCX, <i><b>you cannot know what
the PTO received</b></i>. Any DOCX you review on
your computer is necessarily <b>on your computer</b>.
That gives you exactly zero insight into what the very
same bits will yield on the PTO's computers.<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 18, 2024
at 4:01 PM Richard Straussman via Patentcenter <<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> <font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Some
of those, especially "one off" clients, can find a
new attorney. For larger clients, I am trying to
work up a form along the lines of something like
this: <br>
<br>
If you want to file in DOCX, we must have the
application complete and ready to file at least 5
days before any due date, we will charge to review
the PTO created D2 file at the fixed rate of $50
per text application page and surcharge and
additional $25 on top for reviewing of each
formula, table and per page of pseudo code or
source code listing (we don't do chemical or
biotech cases). We will also create and upload an
Auxiliary PDF and retain that file and the message
digest for that file for a fixed fee of $250. <br>
<br>
Alternatively, they must agree to the filing of a
provisional application in PDF first (and pay our
fee and the Official Fee for doing so) and we will
file the DOCX the next day that expressly
incorporates the provisional by reference in its
entirety.<br>
<br>
We will also provide and send, with the
application and declaration, a form that the
Applicant MUST sign acknowledging all of the
problems</font><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"> and explaining the risks (to them
and us)</font> associated with any DOCX filing
with or without the Auxiliary PDF or pre-filed
provisional, and that expressly states that we
absolutely ONLY recommend filing in PDF, NEVER in
DOCX, and that, if they insist on DOCX, they
affirmatively acknowledge that they are acting <u>directly
contrary to our express legal advice </u> and,
thus, while we will, thereafter, file in that form
as a courtesy, thereafter, they assume all
responsibility for all negatives that result from
that form of filing. Those per-page charges will
be itemized in the sent form and will ALWAYS
result in much greater than the $400 surcharge
(unless the application is less than 8 pages of
pure text without an Aux file) or 3 pages with one
(a size I have only filed once in 30 years of
practice and, in which case (due to my practice
areas) the risks are probably non-existent), so if
they opt for the DOCX route, "stupid is as stupid
does." If they refuse, then it is "sorry, get new
counsel time."<br>
<br>
</font>
<div> <span><strong>Richard Straussman</strong></span><span><span><strong><br>
</strong></span> </span><strong><span>Senior
Counsel</span><span><strong><br>
</strong></span> <span>Registered Patent
Attorney</span><span><br>
</span></strong> <span>Member NY, NJ & CT
Bars</span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>. . . . . . . . . . . . . .</strong></span>
<span></span> <span><br>
</span> <span><strong>Weitzman Law Offices, LLC</strong></span><span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>Intellectual Property Law</strong></span><span><br>
</span> <span>425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401
(PLEASE NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)</span><span><br>
</span> <span>Roseland, NJ 07068</span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>direct line</strong></span>
<span>973.403.9943<br>
</span> <span><strong>main</strong></span> <span>973.403.9940<br>
</span> <span><strong>fax</strong></span><span></span>
<span>973.403.9944</span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>e-mail</strong></span><span></span>
<span><a
href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a></span><span><br>
<br>
</span> <span><strong><a
href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a><br>
</strong></span> <span><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
</span> </div>
<div>On 1/18/2024 3:31 PM, Randall Svihla via
Patentcenter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span>Not
every firm has clients who will agree to
pay the $400 non-DOCX surcharge regardless
of the parade of <span>horribles</span>.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span> </span></font></p>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225)
currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid
none none;border-width:1pt medium
medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span>From:</span></font></b><span>
Patentcenter <a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On
Behalf Of </span></b>David Boundy via
Patentcenter<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, January 18, 2024 3:28 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
For bug reports, feature requests, and
tips and tricks about Patent Center. <a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
David Boundy <a
href="mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Patentcenter] Declarations and DOCX
filing</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div
id="m_3967191366386329627m_-7806230092778126326m_-1964162874824305034gmail-:4b3">
<div
id="m_3967191366386329627m_-7806230092778126326m_-1964162874824305034gmail-:2uh">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">I agree
with Rich. My firm has issued a
policy that we only file in
PDF. If a client wants DOCX,
we give them a parade of
horribles, and tell them that if
they want to save $400, they
must give us instructions in
writing, and acknowledge all the
costs of all the horribles. Any
nitwit can see that all the
excess costs will be close to,
perhaps above, $400 for even
best-case applications, and any
single high cost example will
drive the average far above
$400. I'll let you know in a
couple months if anyone accepts
the offer.</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">On Thu, Jan 18,
2024 at 3:16 PM Richard Straussman via
Patentcenter <<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor
rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none
solid;border-width:medium medium medium
1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><font
size="2" face="Helvetica"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Much
better to simply not file in DOCX
(of course, its your license at
risk, not to mention the value of
any patent that might issue).</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><strong><b><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Richard
Straussman</span></font></b></strong><b><span
style="font-weight:bold"><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Senior Counsel</span></font></b></strong><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Registered Patent
Attorney</span></font></b></strong><br>
</span></b>Member NY, NJ & CT
Bars<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">. . . . . . . . . . .
. . .</span></font></b></strong>
<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Weitzman Law Offices,
LLC</span></font></b></strong><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Intellectual Property
Law</span></font></b></strong><br>
425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401
(PLEASE NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)<br>
Roseland, NJ 07068<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">direct line</span></font></b></strong>
973.403.9943<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">main</span></font></b></strong>
973.403.9940<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">fax</span></font></b></strong>
973.403.9944<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">e-mail</span></font></b></strong>
<a
href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a><br>
<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></font></b></strong><b><span
style="font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></b><br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">On
1/18/2024 3:04 PM, Benjamin Keim
via Patentcenter wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">For those
applications that are filed in
DOCX, it bothers me that the
document reviewed by the
inventors when they decide to
sign the declaration is not the
document that is saved in Patent
Center. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">For PDF
filings we would send the
inventors the PDF document and
the declaration form. They would
choose to sign the declaration
if they agreed what was in the
PDF specification and drawings
was their invention. We would
upload the documents reviewed by
the inventors and they would be
saved in the USPTO’s electronic
system. I suppose it wasn’t
actually the documents reviewed
by the inventors because the
PDFs were changed by flattening
each page to a TIFF image and
reassembling as a PDF. But all
the ink on the page would be the
same but for some halftoning
degradation.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">The USPTO
declaration form PTO/AIA/01 for
declarations included with the
initial filing has the language
“As the below named inventor, I
hereby declare that: This
declaration is directed to: The
attached application.” What the
inventor considers as the
“attached application” may be
different than what becomes the
record copy in Patent Center.
Does this open up the inventors
to risk of fine or imprisonment
(or both) if the USPTO systems
change something significant in
the DOCX file?</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">I’m
thinking about creating a
declaration form that lists the
file name, file size, and
SHA-512 hash of the documents
(spec and drawings) provided to
the inventors. My intention for
this would be to unambiguously
link the documents reviewed by
the inventors with their
statements made in the
declaration.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">-Ben</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">Benjamin
A. Keim</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">(206)
920-9038</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><font
size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#0563c1"><span
style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(5,99,193)"><a
href="mailto:ben@newportip.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><font
color="#0563c1"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ben@newportip.com</span></font></a></span></font></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none
none;border-width:1pt medium
medium;padding:3pt 0in
0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
Patentcenter <a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Carl
Oppedahl via Patentcenter<br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, January 18, 2024 9:01
AM<br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
For bug reports, feature
requests, and tips and tricks
about Patent Center. <a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
Carl Oppedahl <a
href="mailto:carl@oppedahl.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<carl@oppedahl.com></a><br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Patentcenter] Faxes to the
PTO - some legacy things do work</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">Yeah, I
imagine most practitioners do
always file the declaration with
the application. I imagine I am
quite out of the ordinary,
having to hand in inventors'
declarations later.</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">What
happens to me is, I keep
fiddling with the text of the
patent application, particularly
the claims, with multiple
version changes leading up to
the moment, late in the day on
the last possible day, that I
click "submit" and e-file it at
the patent office.</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">The
inventor declaration of course
is tied to the notion that the
signer has reviewed the patent
application that is going to be
filed, and agrees that he or she
is an inventor thereof. But in
my case, given that the exact
wording of the application kept
wriggling around until the very
end, there is no way the
inventor could be expected to
sign such a thing until after
the wriggling had ceased. Which
means, no way could the inventor
even sign the declaration until
chronologically after the filing
of the application had taken
place.</span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">Yet
another thing that happens to me
is, the instructions come in
from foreign instructing counsel
to please get something filed at
the USPTO. So I prepare
inventor declarations and send
them to instructing counsel.
The signed declarations do not
arrive until some days later,
long after the US patent
application got filed. Which
means, no way could I managed to
file the declaration with the
application.</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">On
1/18/2024 8:49 AM, Randall
Svihla via Patentcenter wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">We
always file the declaration
with the application.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid
none none;border-width:1pt
medium medium;padding:3pt 0in
0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
Patentcenter <a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Roger
Browdy via Patentcenter<br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, January 18, 2024
10:34 AM<br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
For bug reports, feature
requests, and tips and tricks
about Patent Center. <a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
Roger Browdy <a
href="mailto:RLBrowdy@browdyneimark.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<RLBrowdy@browdyneimark.com></a><br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Patentcenter] Faxes to
the PTO - some legacy things
do work</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">I don’t
think it is a joke. I bet
there was a huge volume of
applications filed Tuesday
night to avoid the DOCX tax.
We had to file one late at
night and had a hell of a time
trying to do so. Couldn’t
file the assignment/dec forms
with EPAS because of the
problems and couldn’t get back
into PC to file the
declaration directly, so have
to pay the surcharge for late
filing of declaration because
of the PTO problems. In a
fair world, we would be able
to get that refunded.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">Roger</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid
none none;border-width:1pt
medium medium;padding:3pt 0in
0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
Patentcenter <a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Patent
Lawyer via Patentcenter<br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, January 18, 2024
10:25 AM<br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
For bug reports, feature
requests, and tips and tricks
about Patent Center. <a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
Patent Lawyer <a
href="mailto:patentlawyer995@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<patentlawyer995@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
[Patentcenter] Faxes to the
PTO - some legacy things do
work</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">There
was recent discussion about
faxes to the PTO and return
faxes from the PTO. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">Because
of yesterday’s shit show with
Patent Center and because of
other deficiencies in Patent
Center, I had to fax four
separate submissions to the
PTO last night.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">I did
receive acknowledgment faxes
back from the PTO for each
submission. So, that legacy
functionality is still there,
and it still worked for me.
(I hope the PTO lurkers on
this list don’t go and turn it
off!)</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">I use a
service called eFax. It is
not free.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">PS. I
am still laughing at Sandra
E’s joke about DDOS being just
normal filers filing in a
volume the system can’t
handle.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11pt">-- <br>
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color="#7C869A"><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"> Fax: (202)
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style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(12,100,192)"><u><a
href="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com"
title="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com" style="color:rgb(254,70,165)"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dboundy@potomaclaw.com</a></u> </span></span><span
style="margin:0px;color:gray"><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:12pt"><u><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"></span></u></span></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:10pt">| </span><u
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.potomaclaw.com"
rel="noopener
noreferrer"
title="http://www.potomaclaw.com/"
style="margin:0px" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="margin:0px;color:rgb(12,100,192)">www.potomaclaw.com</span></a></u></p>
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size="2">
<p
style="margin:0in
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style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span><a
href="http://ssrn.com/author=2936470"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Articles at
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</span></a></p>
<p
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href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:windowtext">Click here to add
me to your
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<p
style="margin:0px
0px
10px;color:rgb(102,127,160);font-family:"Open
Sans",sans-serif,Arial;font-size:12px"><a border="0"
href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"
style="color:rgb(102,127,160);text-decoration:none;outline:none;background:transparent
0px 0px"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><img alt=""
src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wHwYjQzxHxAaQrLX1XiLlcQpAZ83upYUjMvJLtwefIP8dBVb6tJA9Yn2W4bPdW2A18c1EIEHg"
moz-do-not-send="true" width="73" height="92"> <br>
</a></p>
</span></span></span></span></span>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(50,49,48);font-weight:normal;text-align:start;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:15px"><b><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(96,110,154)">David Boundy </span></b><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(124,134,154)">| Partner </span><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(124,134,154)"><span
style="margin:0px;background-color:white;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">|</span><span
style="margin:0px;background-color:white"><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></span></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(124,134,154)">Potomac Law
Group, PLLC</span></p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(50,49,48);font-weight:normal;text-align:start;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:15px"><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(124,134,154)">P.O. Box
590638,
Newton, MA
02459</span></p>
<div
style="margin:0px;font-family:Tahoma,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:13.3333px;color:black;text-align:left"><font
size="2"
face="Helvetica"
color="#7C869A"><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont"></span></font></div>
<div
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,Helvetica,EmojiFont,"Apple
Color
Emoji","Segoe
UI
Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe
UI
Symbol","Android
Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:13.3333px;color:black">
<font size="2"
face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont" color="#7C869A"><span
style="margin:0px"></span></font></div>
<div
style="margin:0px;font-family:Tahoma,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:13px;color:black"><font
size="2"
face="Helvetica"
color="#7C869A"><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont"></span></font></div>
<p
style="margin:0px;color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:13px;font-family:Helvetica,serif,EmojiFont"><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:10pt"></span></p>
<font
style="font-size:13.3333px;color:black;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,Helvetica,EmojiFont,"Apple
Color
Emoji","Segoe
UI
Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe
UI
Symbol","Android
Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><span style="margin:0px"></span></font>
<p
style="margin:0px;color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:13px;font-family:Helvetica,serif,EmojiFont"><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:12pt"><font
size="2"
face="Helvetica"
color="#7C869A"><span style="margin:0px"><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"><span
style="margin:0px">Tel (646)</span><span style="margin:0px"> 472-9737</span></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"> </span></span></font><font size="2"
face="Helvetica"
color="gray"><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt">|</span></font><font size="2"
face="Helvetica"
color="#7C869A"><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"> Fax: (202)
318-7707</span></font></span></p>
<p
style="margin:0px;color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:13px;font-family:Helvetica,serif,EmojiFont"><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:12pt"><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(12,100,192)"><u><a
href="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com"
title="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com" style="color:rgb(254,70,165)"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dboundy@potomaclaw.com</a></u> </span></span><span
style="margin:0px;color:gray"><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:12pt"><u><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"></span></u></span></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:10pt">| </span><u
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.potomaclaw.com"
rel="noopener
noreferrer"
title="http://www.potomaclaw.com/"
style="margin:0px" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="margin:0px;color:rgb(12,100,192)">www.potomaclaw.com</span></a></u></p>
<span><span><span><span><span><span><span><font
size="2">
<p
style="margin:0in
0in 0.0001pt"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">
</span><a
href="http://ssrn.com/author=2936470"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Articles at
http://ssrn.com/author=2936470</a><a
href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:windowtext"><br>
</span></a></p>
<p
style="margin:0in
0in 0.0001pt"><a
href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:windowtext">Click here to add
me to your
contacts.</span></a></p>
</font></span></span></span></span></span>
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style="margin:0px
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Sans",sans-serif,Arial;font-size:14px"><span
style="font-weight:700"></span></p>
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