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<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I seriously doubt that,
unless the firm is one of those that relies upon volume business
from "one off" sole inventors and drafts applications and claims
that are either not infringeable or trivially circumvented just to
get the revenue, in which case, I say good riddance to bad
rubbish, and when such an inventor comes to me to assert a patent
from such a firm that filed in DOCX and the patent is hosed
because of what the PTO did, I will tell them to sue the firm who
did so for malpractice.<br>
<br>
</font>
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</style><span class="c1"><strong>Richard Straussman</strong></span><span
class="c3"><span class="c2"><strong><br>
</strong></span> </span><strong><span class="c4">Senior
Counsel</span><span class="c5"><strong><br>
</strong></span> <span class="c6">Registered Patent Attorney</span><span
class="c5"><br>
</span></strong> <span class="c6">Member NY, NJ & CT Bars</span><span
class="c5"><br>
</span> <span class="c7"><strong>. . . . . . . . . . . . . .</strong></span>
<span class="c8"></span> <span class="c5"><br>
</span> <span class="c9"><strong>Weitzman Law Offices, LLC</strong></span><span
class="c16"><span class="c5"><br>
</span> <span class="c9"><strong>Intellectual Property Law</strong></span><span
class="c9"><br>
</span> <span class="c4">425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401
(PLEASE NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)</span><span class="c5"><br>
</span> <span class="c4">Roseland, NJ 07068</span><span
class="c11"><br>
</span> <span class="c12"><strong>direct line</strong></span> <span
class="c6">973.403.9943<br>
</span> <span class="c12"><strong>main</strong></span> <span
class="c6">973.403.9940<br>
</span> <span class="c12"><strong>fax</strong></span><span
class="c12"></span> <span class="c6">973.403.9944</span><span
class="c11"><br>
</span> <span class="c12"><strong>e-mail</strong></span><span
class="c6"></span> <span class="c13"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a></span><span
class="c11"><br>
<br>
</span> <span class="c14"><strong><a
href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a><br>
</strong></span> <span class="c15"><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
</span>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/18/2024 4:30 PM, Randall Svihla
via Patentcenter wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun
Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">Some firms might lose all of their clients in
response to such an ultimatum.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun
Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun
Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""> Patentcenter
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Richard
Straussman via Patentcenter<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, January 18, 2024 4:17 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> David
Boundy <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com"><DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com></a>; For bug
reports, feature requests, and tips and tricks about
Patent Center. <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Richard
Straussman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"><rstraussman@weitzmanip.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Patentcenter] Declarations and DOCX filing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="2"
face="Helvetica"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">Point taken, although if you clearly
spell it out the limitation of what you are reviewing and
why it is not reliable due to what the PTO does, I am not
sure that there is an implied warranty - especially if
they acknowledge that they are acting expressly contrary
to your advice, and that you are doing it as a "courtesy"
and the charge is simply because time must be expended to
do so, even though it may be futile.<br>
<br>
I am still investigating if NY and NJ law allows one to
absolve oneself in this type of manner from liability. If
not, then it is PDF and pay the fee or get new counsel.
<br>
<br>
BTW - virtually all of my clients qualify as "small
entity" so they only face a $160 charge, so if cost is a
factor, they WILL always opt for the PDF route, as it will
always be cheaper. The "large entity" clients will follow
my advice.</span></font><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><b><font
size="3" face="Verdana" color="blue"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New
Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:blue">Richard
Straussman</span></font></b></strong><b><font
size="1" face="Verdana" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";color:navy;font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></font></b><span class="c4"><b><font
face="Verdana" color="#656565"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-weight:bold">Senior Counsel</span></font></b></span><b><font
size="2" face="Verdana"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></font></b><span class="c6"><b><font size="1"
face="Verdana" color="#656565"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-weight:bold">Registered Patent
Attorney</span></font></b></span><b><font size="2"
face="Verdana"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></font></b><span class="c6"><font size="1"
face="Verdana" color="#656565"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">Member NY, NJ & CT Bars</span></font></span><font
size="2" face="Verdana"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman""><br>
</span></font><strong><b><font size="1" face="Verdana"
color="#989898"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New
Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:#989898">.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .</span></font></b></strong><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">
</span><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman""><br>
<strong><b><font face="Verdana" color="maroon"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:maroon">Weitzman
Law Offices, LLC</span></font></b></strong><font
color="maroon"><span style="color:maroon"><br>
<strong><b><font face="Verdana"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri">Intellectual
Property Law</span></font></b></strong><br>
</span></font></span></font><span class="c4"><font
face="Verdana" color="#656565"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401 (PLEASE
NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)</span></font></span><font
size="2" face="Verdana" color="maroon"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";color:maroon"><br>
</span></font><span class="c4"><font face="Verdana"
color="#656565"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">Roseland, NJ 07068</span></font></span><font
size="1" face="Verdana" color="maroon"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";color:maroon"><br>
<strong><b><font face="Verdana"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri">direct
line</span></font></b></strong></span></font><span
class="c16"><font color="maroon"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">
</span></font></span><span class="c6"><font size="1"
face="Verdana" color="#656565"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">973.403.9943</span></font></span><font
size="1" face="Verdana" color="#656565"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";color:#656565"><br>
</span></font><strong><b><font size="1" face="Verdana"
color="maroon"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New
Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:maroon">main</span></font></b></strong><span
class="c16"><font color="maroon"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">
</span></font></span><span class="c6"><font size="1"
face="Verdana" color="#656565"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">973.403.9940</span></font></span><font
size="1" face="Verdana" color="#656565"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";color:#656565"><br>
</span></font><strong><b><font size="1" face="Verdana"
color="maroon"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New
Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:maroon">fax</span></font></b></strong><span
class="c16"><font color="maroon"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">
</span></font></span><span class="c6"><font size="1"
face="Verdana" color="#656565"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">973.403.9944</span></font></span><font
size="1" face="Verdana" color="maroon"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";color:maroon"><br>
<strong><b><font face="Verdana"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri">e-mail</span></font></b></strong></span></font><span
class="c16"><font color="maroon"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">
</span></font></span><span class="c13"><u><font size="1"
face="Verdana" color="blue"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman""><a
href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a></span></font></u></span><font
size="1" face="Verdana" color="maroon"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";color:maroon"><br>
<br>
<strong><b><u><font face="Verdana"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri"><a
href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></font></u></b></strong><b><u><span
style="font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></u></b><br>
</span></font><font color="maroon"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:maroon"><br
style="mso-special-character:line-break">
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--><br
style="mso-special-character:line-break">
<!--[endif]--></span></font><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">On 1/18/2024 4:06 PM, David Boundy
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">I would not take the approach Rich
recommends. If you charge for proofreading, you
give an implied warranty.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">But you cannot warrant this.
Because of the inherent design of DOCX,
<b><i><span
style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">you
cannot know what the PTO received</span></i></b>.
Any DOCX you review on your computer is necessarily
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">on your computer</span></b>.
That gives you exactly zero insight into what the
very same bits will yield on the PTO's computers.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 4:01 PM
Richard Straussman via Patentcenter <<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font
size="2" face="Helvetica"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">Some of those, especially "one
off" clients, can find a new attorney. For larger
clients, I am trying to work up a form along the
lines of something like this:
<br>
<br>
If you want to file in DOCX, we must have the
application complete and ready to file at least 5
days before any due date, we will charge to review
the PTO created D2 file at the fixed rate of $50
per text application page and surcharge and
additional $25 on top for reviewing of each
formula, table and per page of pseudo code or
source code listing (we don't do chemical or
biotech cases). We will also create and upload an
Auxiliary PDF and retain that file and the message
digest for that file for a fixed fee of $250. <br>
<br>
Alternatively, they must agree to the filing of a
provisional application in PDF first (and pay our
fee and the Official Fee for doing so) and we will
file the DOCX the next day that expressly
incorporates the provisional by reference in its
entirety.<br>
<br>
We will also provide and send, with the
application and declaration, a form that the
Applicant MUST sign acknowledging all of the
problems and explaining the risks (to them and us)
associated with any DOCX filing with or without
the Auxiliary PDF or pre-filed provisional, and
that expressly states that we absolutely ONLY
recommend filing in PDF, NEVER in DOCX, and that,
if they insist on DOCX, they affirmatively
acknowledge that they are acting
<u>directly contrary to our express legal advice </u>and,
thus, while we will, thereafter, file in that form
as a courtesy, thereafter, they assume all
responsibility for all negatives that result from
that form of filing. Those per-page charges will
be itemized in the sent form and will ALWAYS
result in much greater than the $400 surcharge
(unless the application is less than 8 pages of
pure text without an Aux file) or 3 pages with one
(a size I have only filed once in 30 years of
practice and, in which case (due to my practice
areas) the risks are probably non-existent), so if
they opt for the DOCX route, "stupid is as stupid
does." If they refuse, then it is "sorry, get new
counsel time."</span></font><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><b><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">Richard Straussman</span></font></b></strong><b><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-weight:bold"><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Senior
Counsel</span></font></b></strong><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Registered
Patent Attorney</span></font></b></strong><br>
</span></b><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">Member NY, NJ & CT Bars<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .</span></font></b></strong>
<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Weitzman
Law Offices, LLC</span></font></b></strong><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Intellectual
Property Law</span></font></b></strong><br>
425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401 (PLEASE NOTE THE
SUITE CHANGE)<br>
Roseland, NJ 07068<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">direct
line</span></font></b></strong>
973.403.9943<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">main</span></font></b></strong>
973.403.9940<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">fax</span></font></b></strong>
973.403.9944<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">e-mail</span></font></b></strong>
<a href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a><br>
<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></font></b></strong><b><span
style="font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></b><br>
<br style="mso-special-character:line-break">
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--><br
style="mso-special-character:line-break">
<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">On 1/18/2024 3:31 PM, Randall
Svihla via Patentcenter wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Not
every firm has clients who will agree to pay
the $400 non-DOCX surcharge regardless of the
parade of horribles.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
Patentcenter
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>David
Boundy via Patentcenter<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, January 18, 2024 3:28 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
For bug reports, feature requests, and tips and
tricks about Patent Center.
<a href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
David Boundy <a
href="mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
<DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Patentcenter] Declarations and DOCX filing<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div
id="m_-7806230092778126326m_-1964162874824305034gmail-:4b3">
<div
id="m_-7806230092778126326m_-1964162874824305034gmail-:2uh">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">I agree
with Rich. My firm has issued a
policy that we only file in PDF.
If a client wants DOCX, we give them
a parade of horribles, and tell them
that if they want to save $400, they
must give us instructions in
writing, and acknowledge all the
costs of all the horribles. Any
nitwit can see that all the excess
costs will be close to, perhaps
above, $400 for even best-case
applications, and any single high
cost example will drive the average
far above $400. I'll let you know
in a couple months if anyone accepts
the offer.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">On Thu, Jan 18,
2024 at 3:16 PM Richard Straussman via
Patentcenter <<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font
size="2" face="Helvetica"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Much
better to simply not file in DOCX (of
course, its your license at risk, not to
mention the value of any patent that
might issue).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><b><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Richard
Straussman</span></font></b></strong><b><span
style="font-weight:bold"><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Senior Counsel</span></font></b></strong><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Registered Patent
Attorney</span></font></b></strong><br>
</span></b>Member NY, NJ & CT Bars<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .</span></font></b></strong>
<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Weitzman
Law Offices, LLC</span></font></b></strong><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Intellectual
Property Law</span></font></b></strong><br>
425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401 (PLEASE
NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)<br>
Roseland, NJ 07068<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">direct
line</span></font></b></strong>
973.403.9943<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">main</span></font></b></strong>
973.403.9940<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">fax</span></font></b></strong>
973.403.9944<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">e-mail</span></font></b></strong>
<a
href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a><br>
<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></font></b></strong><b><span
style="font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></b><br
style="mso-special-character:line-break">
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--><br
style="mso-special-character:line-break">
<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">On 1/18/2024
3:04 PM, Benjamin Keim via
Patentcenter wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">For those
applications that are filed in DOCX,
it bothers me that the document
reviewed by the inventors when they
decide to sign the declaration is
not the document that is saved in
Patent Center. <o:p>
</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">For PDF
filings we would send the inventors
the PDF document and the declaration
form. They would choose to sign the
declaration if they agreed what was
in the PDF specification and
drawings was their invention. We
would upload the documents reviewed
by the inventors and they would be
saved in the USPTO’s electronic
system. I suppose it wasn’t actually
the documents reviewed by the
inventors because the PDFs were
changed by flattening each page to a
TIFF image and reassembling as a
PDF. But all the ink on the page
would be the same but for some
halftoning degradation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">The USPTO
declaration form PTO/AIA/01 for
declarations included with the
initial filing has the language “As
the below named inventor, I hereby
declare that: This declaration is
directed to: The attached
application.” What the inventor
considers as the “attached
application” may be different than
what becomes the record copy in
Patent Center. Does this open up the
inventors to risk of fine or
imprisonment (or both) if the USPTO
systems change something significant
in the DOCX file?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">I’m
thinking about creating a
declaration form that lists the file
name, file size, and SHA-512 hash of
the documents (spec and drawings)
provided to the inventors. My
intention for this would be to
unambiguously link the documents
reviewed by the inventors with their
statements made in the declaration.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-Ben<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Benjamin
A. Keim<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">(206)
920-9038<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><u><font
size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#0563c1"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#0563C1"><a
href="mailto:ben@newportip.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><font
color="#0563c1"><span
style="color:#0563C1">ben@newportip.com</span></font></a></span></font></u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
Patentcenter
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Carl
Oppedahl via Patentcenter<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, January 18, 2024 9:01 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
For bug reports, feature requests,
and tips and tricks about Patent
Center.
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
Carl Oppedahl <a
href="mailto:carl@oppedahl.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<carl@oppedahl.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Patentcenter] Faxes to the PTO
- some legacy things do work<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Yeah, I
imagine most practitioners do always
file the declaration with the
application. I imagine I am quite
out of the ordinary, having to hand
in inventors' declarations later.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">What
happens to me is, I keep fiddling
with the text of the patent
application, particularly the
claims, with multiple version
changes leading up to the moment,
late in the day on the last possible
day, that I click "submit" and
e-file it at the patent office.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">The
inventor declaration of course is
tied to the notion that the signer
has reviewed the patent application
that is going to be filed, and
agrees that he or she is an inventor
thereof. But in my case, given that
the exact wording of the application
kept wriggling around until the very
end, there is no way the inventor
could be expected to sign such a
thing until after the wriggling had
ceased. Which means, no way could
the inventor even sign the
declaration until chronologically
after the filing of the application
had taken place.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Yet another
thing that happens to me is, the
instructions come in from foreign
instructing counsel to please get
something filed at the USPTO. So I
prepare inventor declarations and
send them to instructing counsel.
The signed declarations do not
arrive until some days later, long
after the US patent application got
filed. Which means, no way could I
managed to file the declaration with
the application.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">On
1/18/2024 8:49 AM, Randall Svihla
via Patentcenter wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">We
always file the declaration with
the application.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
Patentcenter
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Roger
Browdy via Patentcenter<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, January 18, 2024 10:34
AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
For bug reports, feature requests,
and tips and tricks about Patent
Center.
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
Roger Browdy <a
href="mailto:RLBrowdy@browdyneimark.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<RLBrowdy@browdyneimark.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Patentcenter] Faxes to the
PTO - some legacy things do work<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">I don’t
think it is a joke. I bet there
was a huge volume of applications
filed Tuesday night to avoid the
DOCX tax. We had to file one late
at night and had a hell of a time
trying to do so. Couldn’t file
the assignment/dec forms with EPAS
because of the problems and
couldn’t get back into PC to file
the declaration directly, so have
to pay the surcharge for late
filing of declaration because of
the PTO problems. In a fair
world, we would be able to get
that refunded.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Roger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b>
Patentcenter
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Patent
Lawyer via Patentcenter<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, January 18, 2024 10:25
AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
For bug reports, feature requests,
and tips and tricks about Patent
Center.
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
Patent Lawyer <a
href="mailto:patentlawyer995@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<patentlawyer995@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
[Patentcenter] Faxes to the PTO -
some legacy things do work<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">There was
recent discussion about faxes to
the PTO and return faxes from the
PTO.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Because
of yesterday’s shit show with
Patent Center and because of other
deficiencies in Patent Center, I
had to fax four separate
submissions to the PTO last night.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">I did
receive acknowledgment faxes back
from the PTO for each
submission. So, that legacy
functionality is still there, and
it still worked for me. (I hope
the PTO lurkers on this list don’t
go and turn it off!)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">I use a
service called eFax. It is not
free.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">PS. I am
still laughing at Sandra E’s joke
about DDOS being just normal
filers filing in a volume the
system can’t handle.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">--
<br>
Patentcenter mailing list<br>
<a
href="mailto:Patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentcenter_oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentcenter_oppedahl-lists.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><br clear="all">
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style="font-size:10.0pt"><a
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><font color="black"><span
style="color:windowtext">Click
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