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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/18/2024 3:21 PM, Randall B.
Bateman via Patentcenter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">I think
that is a bit overstated. If the client has been advised,
the choice is up to them. It is not malpractice to follow a
client’s instructions if they have been advised of the
consequences. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>This only works if one can prove (at litigation time) that one
fully advised the client of all of the risks.</p>
<p>Clearly what needs to happen is somebody drafting up an "advice
of consequences" document and making sure that all of the risks
are indeed fully spelled out.</p>
<p>And then get the appropriate state ethics bodies to sign off that
it is permitted under ethics rules to ask a client to agree to
such a document. (Some state ethics bodies frown on anything that
smacks of asking a client to waive a malpractice claim in
advance.)</p>
<p>I suggest that merely memorializing "the client instructed me to
file via DOCX to avoid the penalty" is not going to come anywhere
close to protecting the practitioner. One would have to spell
out, quite fully, all of what you call "the consequences". Just a
couple of days ago I presented a CLE program that required well
over a dozen presentation slides to spell out "the consequences".
<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:SA1PR06MB8372F1BCF18A3FFFEAA3E3A5AE712@SA1PR06MB8372.namprd06.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">There are a
lot of solo inventors and small companies that are very
concerned about costs. I have also had midsized clients
that will likewise save money. A lot also depends on what
you are trying to patent, it would seem that an application
with chemical or other formulas is at a much higher risk
than a simple mechanical case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Randall B.
Bateman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Registered
Patent Attorney<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><img
style="width:1.7986in;height:.4583in" id="Picture_x0020_3"
src="cid:part1.abYwgnL9.up6e6gFn@oppedahl.com" class=""
width="173" height="44"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">P.O.
Box 1319<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Salt
Lake City, UT 84110<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">(801)533-0320<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><a
href="mailto:rbb@batemanip.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0563C1">rbb@batemanip.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.batemanip.com/" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0563C1">www.batemanip.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">This e-mail
communication is intended for the sole use of the of the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential attorney-client
privileged communication and/or attorney work product. Any
review, use, distribution or disclosure without the
permission of the author of the intended recipient(s) is
strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient
contact
<a href="mailto:rbb@batemanip.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">rbb@batemanip.com</span></a> and
destroy all copies of this communication.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Patentcenter
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard Straussman via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 18, 2024 2:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Randall Svihla via Patentcenter
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Richard Straussman
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"><rstraussman@weitzmanip.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter] Declarations and DOCX
filing<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I
seriously doubt that, unless the firm is one of those that
relies upon volume business from "one off" sole inventors
and drafts applications and claims that are either not
infringeable or trivially circumvented just to get the
revenue, in which case, I say good riddance to bad rubbish,
and when such an inventor comes to me to assert a patent
from such a firm that filed in DOCX and the patent is hosed
because of what the PTO did, I will tell them to sue the
firm who did so for malpractice.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue">Richard
Straussman</span></strong><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:navy"><br>
</span></b><span class="c4"><b>Senior Counsel</b></span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span></b><span class="c6"><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt">Registered Patent Attorney</span></b></span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span></b><span class="c6"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">Member
NY, NJ & CT Bars</span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span><strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#989898">.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .</span></strong>
<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon">Weitzman
Law Offices, LLC</span></strong><span
style="color:maroon"><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Intellectual
Property Law</span></strong><br>
</span></span><span class="c4">425 Eagle Rock Avenue,
Suite 401 (PLEASE NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)</span><span
class="c4"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
</span></span><span class="c4">Roseland, NJ 07068</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon"><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">direct
line</span></strong></span><span class="c16">
</span><span class="c6"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">973.403.9943</span></span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#656565"><br>
</span><strong><span
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class="c16">
</span><span class="c6"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">973.403.9940</span></span><span
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</span><strong><span
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<strong><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">e-mail</span></strong></span><span
class="c16">
</span><span class="c13"><span style="font-size:8.0pt"><a
href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a></span></span><span
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moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></u></strong><b><u><br>
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</span><span style="color:maroon"><br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/18/2024 4:30 PM, Randall Svihla via
Patentcenter wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Some
firms might lose all of their clients in response to such
an ultimatum.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Patentcenter <a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Richard Straussman via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 18, 2024 4:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Boundy <a
href="mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com></a>;
For bug reports, feature requests, and tips and tricks
about Patent Center.
<a href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Richard Straussman <a
href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><rstraussman@weitzmanip.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter] Declarations and DOCX
filing<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Point
taken, although if you clearly spell it out the limitation
of what you are reviewing and why it is not reliable due
to what the PTO does, I am not sure that there is an
implied warranty - especially if they acknowledge that
they are acting expressly contrary to your advice, and
that you are doing it as a "courtesy" and the charge is
simply because time must be expended to do so, even though
it may be futile.<br>
<br>
I am still investigating if NY and NJ law allows one to
absolve oneself in this type of manner from liability. If
not, then it is PDF and pay the fee or get new counsel.
<br>
<br>
BTW - virtually all of my clients qualify as "small
entity" so they only face a $160 charge, so if cost is a
factor, they WILL always opt for the PDF route, as it will
always be cheaper. The "large entity" clients will follow
my advice.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue">Richard
Straussman</span></strong><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:navy"><br>
</span></b><span class="c4"><b>Senior Counsel</b></span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span></b><span class="c6"><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt">Registered Patent Attorney</span></b></span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span></b><span class="c6"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt">Member NY, NJ & CT Bars</span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span><strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#989898">.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .</span></strong>
<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon">Weitzman
Law Offices, LLC</span></strong><span
style="color:maroon"><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Intellectual
Property Law</span></strong><br>
</span></span><span class="c4">425 Eagle Rock Avenue,
Suite 401 (PLEASE NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)</span><span
class="c4"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
</span></span><span class="c4">Roseland, NJ 07068</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon"><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">direct
line</span></strong></span><span class="c16">
</span><span class="c6"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">973.403.9943</span></span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#656565"><br>
</span><strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon">main</span></strong><span
class="c16">
</span><span class="c6"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">973.403.9940</span></span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#656565"><br>
</span><strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon">fax</span></strong><span
class="c16">
</span><span class="c6"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">973.403.9944</span></span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon"><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">e-mail</span></strong></span><span
class="c16">
</span><span class="c13"><span style="font-size:8.0pt"><a
href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a></span></span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon"><br>
<br>
<strong><u><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></u></strong><b><u><br>
</u></b><br>
</span><span style="color:maroon"><br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/18/2024 4:06 PM, David Boundy
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would not take the approach Rich
recommends. If you charge for proofreading, you give
an implied warranty.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">But you cannot warrant this.
Because of the inherent design of DOCX,
<b><i>you cannot know what the PTO received</i></b>.
Any DOCX you review on your computer is necessarily
<b>on your computer</b>. That gives you exactly zero
insight into what the very same bits will yield on the
PTO's computers.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 4:01 PM
Richard Straussman via Patentcenter <<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Some of those,
especially "one off" clients, can find a new
attorney. For larger clients, I am trying to work
up a form along the lines of something like this:
<br>
<br>
If you want to file in DOCX, we must have the
application complete and ready to file at least 5
days before any due date, we will charge to review
the PTO created D2 file at the fixed rate of $50
per text application page and surcharge and
additional $25 on top for reviewing of each
formula, table and per page of pseudo code or
source code listing (we don't do chemical or
biotech cases). We will also create and upload an
Auxiliary PDF and retain that file and the message
digest for that file for a fixed fee of $250. <br>
<br>
Alternatively, they must agree to the filing of a
provisional application in PDF first (and pay our
fee and the Official Fee for doing so) and we will
file the DOCX the next day that expressly
incorporates the provisional by reference in its
entirety.<br>
<br>
We will also provide and send, with the
application and declaration, a form that the
Applicant MUST sign acknowledging all of the
problems and explaining the risks (to them and us)
associated with any DOCX filing with or without
the Auxiliary PDF or pre-filed provisional, and
that expressly states that we absolutely ONLY
recommend filing in PDF, NEVER in DOCX, and that,
if they insist on DOCX, they affirmatively
acknowledge that they are acting
<u>directly contrary to our express legal advice </u>and,
thus, while we will, thereafter, file in that form
as a courtesy, thereafter, they assume all
responsibility for all negatives that result from
that form of filing. Those per-page charges will
be itemized in the sent form and will ALWAYS
result in much greater than the $400 surcharge
(unless the application is less than 8 pages of
pure text without an Aux file) or 3 pages with one
(a size I have only filed once in 30 years of
practice and, in which case (due to my practice
areas) the risks are probably non-existent), so if
they opt for the DOCX route, "stupid is as stupid
does." If they refuse, then it is "sorry, get new
counsel time."</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Richard Straussman</span></strong><b><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Senior Counsel</span></strong><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Registered Patent
Attorney</span></strong><br>
</b>Member NY, NJ & CT Bars<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">. . . . . . . . . . .
. . .</span></strong>
<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Weitzman Law Offices,
LLC</span></strong><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Intellectual Property
Law</span></strong><br>
425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401 (PLEASE NOTE THE
SUITE CHANGE)<br>
Roseland, NJ 07068<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">direct line</span></strong>
973.403.9943<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">main</span></strong>
973.403.9940<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">fax</span></strong>
973.403.9944<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">e-mail</span></strong>
<a href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a><br>
<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></strong><b><br>
</b><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/18/2024 3:31 PM, Randall
Svihla via Patentcenter wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Not
every firm has clients who will agree to pay
the $400 non-DOCX surcharge regardless of the
parade of horribles.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b>
Patentcenter
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Boundy via
Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 18, 2024 3:28
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For bug reports, feature requests,
and tips and tricks about Patent Center.
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Boundy <a
href="mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
<DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter]
Declarations and DOCX filing<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div
id="m_-7806230092778126326m_-1964162874824305034gmail-:4b3">
<div
id="m_-7806230092778126326m_-1964162874824305034gmail-:2uh">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I agree with
Rich. My firm has issued a policy
that we only file in PDF. If a
client wants DOCX, we give them a
parade of horribles, and tell them
that if they want to save $400, they
must give us instructions in writing,
and acknowledge all the costs of all
the horribles. Any nitwit can see
that all the excess costs will be
close to, perhaps above, $400 for even
best-case applications, and any single
high cost example will drive the
average far above $400. I'll let you
know in a couple months if anyone
accepts the offer.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Thu, Jan
18, 2024 at 3:16 PM Richard Straussman via
Patentcenter <<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Much better to
simply not file in DOCX (of course, its
your license at risk, not to mention the
value of any patent that might issue).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Richard Straussman</span></strong><b><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Senior Counsel</span></strong><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Registered Patent
Attorney</span></strong><br>
</b>Member NY, NJ & CT Bars<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">. . . . . . . . . . .
. . .</span></strong>
<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Weitzman Law Offices,
LLC</span></strong><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Intellectual Property
Law</span></strong><br>
425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401 (PLEASE
NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)<br>
Roseland, NJ 07068<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">direct line</span></strong>
973.403.9943<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">main</span></strong>
973.403.9940<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">fax</span></strong>
973.403.9944<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">e-mail</span></strong>
<a
href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a><br>
<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></strong><b><br>
</b><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On 1/18/2024
3:04 PM, Benjamin Keim via Patentcenter
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">For those
applications that are filed in DOCX,
it bothers me that the document
reviewed by the inventors when they
decide to sign the declaration is not
the document that is saved in Patent
Center. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">For PDF
filings we would send the inventors
the PDF document and the declaration
form. They would choose to sign the
declaration if they agreed what was in
the PDF specification and drawings was
their invention. We would upload the
documents reviewed by the inventors
and they would be saved in the USPTO’s
electronic system. I suppose it wasn’t
actually the documents reviewed by the
inventors because the PDFs were
changed by flattening each page to a
TIFF image and reassembling as a PDF.
But all the ink on the page would be
the same but for some halftoning
degradation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The USPTO
declaration form PTO/AIA/01 for
declarations included with the initial
filing has the language “As the below
named inventor, I hereby declare that:
This declaration is directed to: The
attached application.” What the
inventor considers as the “attached
application” may be different than
what becomes the record copy in Patent
Center. Does this open up the
inventors to risk of fine or
imprisonment (or both) if the USPTO
systems change something significant
in the DOCX file?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I’m thinking
about creating a declaration form that
lists the file name, file size, and
SHA-512 hash of the documents (spec
and drawings) provided to the
inventors. My intention for this would
be to unambiguously link the documents
reviewed by the inventors with their
statements made in the declaration.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">-Ben<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Benjamin A.
Keim<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">(206)
920-9038<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><u><span
style="color:#0563C1"><a
href="mailto:ben@newportip.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">ben@newportip.com</span></a></span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
Patentcenter
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Carl Oppedahl
via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 18,
2024 9:01 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For bug reports,
feature requests, and tips and
tricks about Patent Center.
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Carl Oppedahl <a
href="mailto:carl@oppedahl.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><carl@oppedahl.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter]
Faxes to the PTO - some legacy
things do work<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Yeah,
I imagine most practitioners do
always file the declaration with the
application. I imagine I am quite
out of the ordinary, having to hand
in inventors' declarations later.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">What
happens to me is, I keep fiddling
with the text of the patent
application, particularly the
claims, with multiple version
changes leading up to the moment,
late in the day on the last possible
day, that I click "submit" and
e-file it at the patent office.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The
inventor declaration of course is
tied to the notion that the signer
has reviewed the patent application
that is going to be filed, and
agrees that he or she is an inventor
thereof. But in my case, given that
the exact wording of the application
kept wriggling around until the very
end, there is no way the inventor
could be expected to sign such a
thing until after the wriggling had
ceased. Which means, no way could
the inventor even sign the
declaration until chronologically
after the filing of the application
had taken place.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Yet
another thing that happens to me is,
the instructions come in from
foreign instructing counsel to
please get something filed at the
USPTO. So I prepare inventor
declarations and send them to
instructing counsel. The signed
declarations do not arrive until
some days later, long after the US
patent application got filed. Which
means, no way could I managed to
file the declaration with the
application.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On 1/18/2024
8:49 AM, Randall Svihla via
Patentcenter wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">We always file the
declaration with the application.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
Patentcenter
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger
Browdy via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January
18, 2024 10:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For bug reports,
feature requests, and tips and
tricks about Patent Center.
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Roger Browdy <a
href="mailto:RLBrowdy@browdyneimark.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<RLBrowdy@browdyneimark.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Patentcenter] Faxes to the PTO
- some legacy things do work<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I don’t think
it is a joke. I bet there was a
huge volume of applications filed
Tuesday night to avoid the DOCX
tax. We had to file one late at
night and had a hell of a time
trying to do so. Couldn’t file the
assignment/dec forms with EPAS
because of the problems and couldn’t
get back into PC to file the
declaration directly, so have to pay
the surcharge for late filing of
declaration because of the PTO
problems. In a fair world, we would
be able to get that refunded.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Roger<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
Patentcenter
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Patent
Lawyer via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January
18, 2024 10:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For bug reports,
feature requests, and tips and
tricks about Patent Center.
<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Patent Lawyer <a
href="mailto:patentlawyer995@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<patentlawyer995@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Patentcenter]
Faxes to the PTO - some legacy
things do work<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">There was
recent discussion about faxes to the
PTO and return faxes from the PTO.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Because of
yesterday’s shit show with Patent
Center and because of other
deficiencies in Patent Center, I had
to fax four separate submissions to
the PTO last night.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I did receive
acknowledgment faxes back from the
PTO for each submission. So, that
legacy functionality is still there,
and it still worked for me. (I hope
the PTO lurkers on this list don’t
go and turn it off!)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I use a
service called eFax. It is not
free.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">PS. I am
still laughing at Sandra E’s joke
about DDOS being just normal filers
filing in a volume the system can’t
handle.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
<br>
Patentcenter mailing list<br>
<a
href="mailto:Patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentcenter_oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentcenter_oppedahl-lists.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br
clear="all">
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p
style="margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Open ,serif;color:#667FA0",serif;color:#667FA0"><a
href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#667FA0;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img
style="width:.7638in;height:.9583in"
id="m_-7806230092778126326m_-1964162874824305034Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part2.JrBqE402.9tY0H2JA@oppedahl.com"
alt="Image
removed by
sender."
class=""
width="73"
height="92"
border="0"></span><span
style="color:#667FA0;text-decoration:none"> <br>
</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
style="margin:0in;text-align:start"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#606E9A">David
Boundy </span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#7C869A">|
Partner <span
style="background:white">| </span>Potomac Law Group, PLLC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
style="margin:0in;text-align:start"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#7C869A">P.O.
Box 590638,
Newton, MA
02459</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#7C869A">Tel
(646) 472-9737 </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:gray">|</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#7C869A"> Fax:
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<p
style="margin:0in;text-align:start"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#606E9A">David
Boundy </span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#7C869A">|
Partner <span
style="background:white">| </span>Potomac Law Group, PLLC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
style="margin:0in;text-align:start"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#7C869A">P.O.
Box 590638,
Newton, MA
02459</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#7C869A">Tel
(646) 472-9737 </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:gray">|</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#7C869A"> Fax:
(202) 318-7707</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
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href="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com" target="_blank"
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href="http://www.potomaclaw.com" target="_blank"
title="http://www.potomaclaw.com/" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0C64C0">www.potomaclaw.com</span></a></u></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:windowtext">Click
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