<div dir="ltr">
<div id="gmail-:2ug"><div class="gmail-wl4W9b"></div></div><div class="gmail-"><div class="gmail-aHl"></div><div id="gmail-:2rz" tabindex="-1"></div><div id="gmail-:4b3" class="gmail-ii gmail-gt"><div id="gmail-:2uh" class="gmail-a3s gmail-aiL"><div dir="ltr">I
agree with Rich. My firm has issued a policy that we only file in
PDF. If a client wants DOCX, we give them a parade of horribles, and
tell them that if they want to save $400, they must give us instructions in writing, and acknowledge all the costs of all the horribles. Any nitwit can see that all the excess costs will be close to, perhaps above, $400 for even best-case applications, and any single high cost example will drive the average far above $400. I'll let you
know in a couple months if anyone accepts the offer.</div></div></div></div>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 3:16\u202fPM Richard Straussman via Patentcenter <<a href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Much better to simply not
file in DOCX (of course, its your license at risk, not to mention
the value of any patent that might issue).<br>
<br>
</font>
<div>
<span><strong>Richard Straussman</strong></span><span><span><strong><br>
</strong></span> </span><strong><span>Senior
Counsel</span><span><strong><br>
</strong></span> <span>Registered Patent Attorney</span><span><br>
</span></strong> <span>Member NY, NJ & CT Bars</span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>. . . . . . . . . . . . . .</strong></span>
<span></span> <span><br>
</span> <span><strong>Weitzman Law Offices, LLC</strong></span><span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>Intellectual Property Law</strong></span><span><br>
</span> <span>425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401
(PLEASE NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)</span><span><br>
</span> <span>Roseland, NJ 07068</span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>direct line</strong></span> <span>973.403.9943<br>
</span> <span><strong>main</strong></span> <span>973.403.9940<br>
</span> <span><strong>fax</strong></span><span></span> <span>973.403.9944</span><span><br>
</span> <span><strong>e-mail</strong></span><span></span> <span><a href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com" target="_blank">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a></span><span><br>
<br>
</span> <span><strong><a href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/" target="_blank">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a><br>
</strong></span> <span><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
</span>
</div>
<div>On 1/18/2024 3:04 PM, Benjamin Keim via
Patentcenter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">For
those applications that are filed in DOCX, it bothers me
that the document reviewed by the inventors when they decide
to sign the declaration is not the document that is saved in
Patent Center. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">For
PDF filings we would send the inventors the PDF document and
the declaration form. They would choose to sign the
declaration if they agreed what was in the PDF specification
and drawings was their invention. We would upload the
documents reviewed by the inventors and they would be saved
in the USPTO\u2019s electronic system. I suppose it wasn\u2019t
actually the documents reviewed by the inventors because the
PDFs were changed by flattening each page to a TIFF image
and reassembling as a PDF. But all the ink on the page would
be the same but for some halftoning degradation.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The
USPTO declaration form PTO/AIA/01 for declarations included
with the initial filing has the language \u201cAs the below named
inventor, I hereby declare that: This declaration is
directed to: The attached application.\u201d What the inventor
considers as the \u201cattached application\u201d may be different
than what becomes the record copy in Patent Center. Does
this open up the inventors to risk of fine or imprisonment
(or both) if the USPTO systems change something significant
in the DOCX file?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I\u2019m
thinking about creating a declaration form that lists the
file name, file size, and SHA-512 hash of the documents
(spec and drawings) provided to the inventors. My intention
for this would be to unambiguously link the documents
reviewed by the inventors with their statements made in the
declaration.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">-Ben</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Benjamin
A. Keim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(206)
920-9038<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(5,99,193)"><a href="mailto:ben@newportip.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ben@newportip.com</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Patentcenter
<a href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Carl Oppedahl via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 18, 2024 9:01 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For bug reports, feature requests, and tips
and tricks about Patent Center.
<a href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Carl Oppedahl <a href="mailto:carl@oppedahl.com" target="_blank"><carl@oppedahl.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter] Faxes to the PTO -
some legacy things do work<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p>Yeah, I imagine most practitioners do always file the
declaration with the application. I imagine I am quite out of
the ordinary, having to hand in inventors' declarations later.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>What happens to me is, I keep fiddling with the text of the
patent application, particularly the claims, with multiple
version changes leading up to the moment, late in the day on
the last possible day, that I click "submit" and e-file it at
the patent office.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>The inventor declaration of course is tied to the notion that
the signer has reviewed the patent application that is going
to be filed, and agrees that he or she is an inventor
thereof. But in my case, given that the exact wording of the
application kept wriggling around until the very end, there is
no way the inventor could be expected to sign such a thing
until after the wriggling had ceased. Which means, no way
could the inventor even sign the declaration until
chronologically after the filing of the application had taken
place.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Yet another thing that happens to me is, the instructions
come in from foreign instructing counsel to please get
something filed at the USPTO. So I prepare inventor
declarations and send them to instructing counsel. The signed
declarations do not arrive until some days later, long after
the US patent application got filed. Which means, no way
could I managed to file the declaration with the application.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/18/2024 8:49 AM, Randall Svihla via
Patentcenter wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">We
always file the declaration with the application.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Patentcenter
<a href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger Browdy via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 18, 2024 10:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For bug reports, feature requests, and tips
and tricks about Patent Center.
<a href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Roger Browdy <a href="mailto:RLBrowdy@browdyneimark.com" target="_blank"><RLBrowdy@browdyneimark.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter] Faxes to the PTO -
some legacy things do work</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
don\u2019t think it is a joke. I bet there was a huge volume
of applications filed Tuesday night to avoid the DOCX
tax. We had to file one late at night and had a hell of a
time trying to do so. Couldn\u2019t file the assignment/dec
forms with EPAS because of the problems and couldn\u2019t get
back into PC to file the declaration directly, so have to
pay the surcharge for late filing of declaration because
of the PTO problems. In a fair world, we would be able to
get that refunded.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Roger</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Patentcenter
<a href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Patent Lawyer via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 18, 2024 10:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For bug reports, feature requests, and tips
and tricks about Patent Center.
<a href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Patent Lawyer <a href="mailto:patentlawyer995@gmail.com" target="_blank"><patentlawyer995@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Patentcenter] Faxes to the PTO - some
legacy things do work</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">There was recent discussion about faxes
to the PTO and return faxes from the PTO.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Because of yesterday\u2019s shit show with
Patent Center and because of other deficiencies in Patent
Center, I had to fax four separate submissions to the PTO
last night.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I did receive acknowledgment faxes back
from the PTO for each submission. So, that legacy
functionality is still there, and it still worked for me.
(I hope the PTO lurkers on this list don\u2019t go and turn it
off!)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I use a service called eFax. It is not
free.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">PS. I am still laughing at Sandra E\u2019s
joke about DDOS being just normal filers filing in a volume
the system can\u2019t handle.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
-- <br>
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