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<p class="MsoNormal">David, there may be some misunderstanding. I am not speaking of two application numbers. I am talking about a normal continuation or divisional, which has an incorporation by reference of the contents of the parent application in the
first paragraph. Or a normal non-provisional claiming benefit of a provisional filed about a year earlier, which non-provisional is identical to the provisional filed a year ago (it happens sometimes). Incorporating an incorporation-by-reference paragraph
to the beginning of the non-provisional will protect that non-provisional filed in docx. I am not speaking of the “day before” filing trick. No more cost than usual. No more application numbers than usual.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Roger<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 1, 2024 12:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roger Browdy <RLBrowdy@browdyneimark.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> For bug reports, feature requests, and tips and tricks about Patent Center. <patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com>; For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com>; David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com>;
William Ahmed <ahmed.william@ymail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter] [Patentpractice] two questions about the dreaded .DOCX situation<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Yeah, I thought the same. Then my wonderful assistants pointed out the docketing difficulties of having (in essence) two serial numbers for the same application. So I am pretty convinced that either provisional-plus-incorporation-by-reference
or PCT-plus-file-by-reference are more costly than the $400/$160/$80.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The one thing that I'm still cogitating is the Preliminary Amendment work around.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 11:10 AM Roger Browdy <<a href="mailto:RLBrowdy@browdyneimark.com" target="_blank">RLBrowdy@browdyneimark.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">It seems to me that the explicit incorporation by reference technique for continuations, divisionals, and non-provisionals that are identical to the incorporated by reference provisional
is superior to aux-pdf as no petition is ever necessary. If an error in the PTO version of the application is discovered any time during the pendency of the application, it should be easy to correct by simple amendment as it will not be new matter due to
the incorporation by reference. But it is problematic after the patent issues. You could try a request for certificate of correction, but it is not Office error. To correct an applicant’s error, you need more than no new matter. You have to show that no
further examination is necessary, etc. It may be that the only means of correction is by reissue. Again, no problem of new matter in the reissue, but still a lot of extra time and expense. We have no idea how aux-pdf will work in the same situation after
issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Roger<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> Patentcenter <<a href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Boundy via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 1, 2024 10:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Boundy <<a href="mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com" target="_blank">DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com</a>>; Users of Patentcenter <<a href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>; William Ahmed <<a href="mailto:ahmed.william@ymail.com" target="_blank">ahmed.william@ymail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter] [Patentpractice] two questions about the dreaded .DOCX situation<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Yes, you can rely on the incorporated-by-reference parent to correct errors introduced by the PTO.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The existence of a path to get a correction is only half the problem. The other half is that the PTO will not reimburse you or your client for the costs of doing the proofreading,
error checking, or correction.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 8:41 AM William Ahmed via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Dear List,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Question A --> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Suppose we (i) file the spec in .DOCX for a US non-provisional under 35 USC 111 and </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">(ii) 20 minutes after filing on the DAY of filing, we submit a preliminary amendment in PDF on the day of filing,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">does this PDF preliminary amendment trigger the .DOCX surcharge?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Question B [unrelated]--> hypothetically, let's say we file .DOCX without the auxiliary pdf - we would NEVER do
that, but let's just say hypothetically.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Let's assume that this patent application is a CON [parent filed in pdf format] of a published/pending US patent
non-provisional application,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">and that on page 1 of the .DOCX spec the CON parent is incorporated by reference.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">The patent grants, and there are problems with the granted patents due to USPTO .DOCX technology issues (e.g. one
of the equations is converted</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">into block symbols or otherwise downgraded). I have no AUX-PDF to save me in this situation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Would the incorporation-by-reference save the situation?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Thank you,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
<br>
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