<div dir="ltr">Thank you for this thread, and the links.<div>As an aside, there are many things I think we can agree that Europe does</div><div>better than the US, but I respectfully submit that judicial opinions are not one of them.</div><div>Having taken a class where we were expected to read many of these,</div><div>I almost always find them unfocused and verbose, especially when</div><div>compared to US judicial opinions. I wonder why that is--maybe because</div><div>European decisions spell out the alternative arguments in detail, whereas</div><div>US decisions leave that to the dissent?? But even so I think the explanations</div><div>could be much better focused and streamlined so that the holding and</div><div>key points were easier to discern. Just my 2 cents.</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 8:07 PM Scott Nielson via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg-5887974094050897782">
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Here is the money quote:</div>
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2.9 In conclusion, the Board, applying the general rule of interpretation pursuant to Article 31 VCLT to the term "signature" in Article 72 EPC, i.e. interpreting this term in good faith according to its ordinary meaning in the applicable context and taking
account of the purpose of this legal provision, holds that this term - in the absence of a different definition in the Implementing Regulations (see point 2.11 below) -
<b><i>must be understood as referring to a handwritten depiction of someone's name, written on the assignment "contract" referred to in Article 72 EPC. In the absence of any such handwritten signature, an assignment agreement does not comply with the formal
requirements under Article 72 EPC and, under Rule 22(3) EPC, has no effect vis-à-vis the EPO.</i></b> It follows from Rule 22(3) EPC that it is beyond the EPO's jurisdiction whether or not such a contract, in cases of non-compliance with the requirements of
Article 72 EPC, also has no effect between the parties to the contract themselves. If necessary, this question must be decided by the competent national court according to the applicable law regulating the consequences of non-compliance with formal requirements
for contracts.</div>
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I can think of one assignment right off hand that was killed by this decision. It is one of those that was signed with Adobe sign, which tracks the history of the assignment (who opened it, etc.) and shows it was signed by the person indicated. It was difficult
for the client to get everyone's signatures. It's going to be a PIA to get it signed again by hand. </div>
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<div id="m_-5887974094050897782divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> on behalf of Orvis via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 20, 2023 6:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Orvis <<a href="mailto:orvispc@gmail.com" target="_blank">orvispc@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] inventor address on patent assignment</font>
<div> </div>
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<div style="font-family:sans-serif"><span dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Thank you for sending the decision. Wow. 20 plus pages to decide if an electronic signature is really a signature. Apparently not.</span>
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<p>Nov 20, 2023 7:45:00 PM Maureen Mazza via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>:</p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Link to the Sept 4, 2023 decision:</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://legacy.epo.org/boards-of-appeal/decisions/pdf/j230005eu1.pdf" target="_blank">https://legacy.epo.org/boards-of-appeal/decisions/pdf/j230005eu1.pdf</a></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Maureen</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt">Maureen <a name="m_-5887974094050897782_x_OLE_LINK13">Mazza</a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt">Patent Agent<br>
Bergman LLC</span></p>
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<i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Intellectual Property Law</span></i></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Patent Lawyer via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 20, 2023 6:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jim Boff <<a href="mailto:jboff@atllp.co.uk" target="_blank">jboff@atllp.co.uk</a>>; E. Victor Indiano <<a href="mailto:vic@im-iplaw.com" target="_blank">vic@im-iplaw.com</a>>; James E. Lake <<a href="mailto:jel@randalldanskin.com" target="_blank">jel@randalldanskin.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] inventor address on patent assignment</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Please send a link to this EPO decision requiring handwritten signatures on assignments.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
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<b><span style="color:black;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From: </span></b><span style="color:black;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
on behalf of Jim Boff via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>Jim Boff <<a href="mailto:jboff@atllp.co.uk" target="_blank">jboff@atllp.co.uk</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 20, 2023 at 6:44 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"E. Victor Indiano" <<a href="mailto:vic@im-iplaw.com" target="_blank">vic@im-iplaw.com</a>>, "James E. Lake" <<a href="mailto:jel@randalldanskin.com" target="_blank">jel@randalldanskin.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>"
<<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Patentpractice] inventor address on patent assignment</span></p>
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On top of which, a recent decision of the EPO Boards of Appeal overturned a decision of the EPO President, and held that only handwritten signatures were effective on assignments, not electronic signatures.</p>
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One more poop on the pile we have to shovel. </p>
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<b><span style="color:black;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="color:black;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
on behalf of E. Victor Indiano via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 20, 2023 11:13:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James E. Lake <<a href="mailto:jel@randalldanskin.com" target="_blank">jel@randalldanskin.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a> <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] inventor address on patent assignment</span></p>
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<span style="color:rgb(219,112,0)">This is the first time you've received an email from this sender. Make sure this is someone you trust.
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Something else that you should be aware of is that many foreign countries require the Assignee to also execute the assignment. This is different than the US, which only requires the assignor
to execute the assignment.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Vic Indiano </span>
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<span style="color:black;font-size:16pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif">The Indiano Law Group, LLC</span></p>
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<b><span style="color:black;font-size:16pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></b></p>
<p style="margin:0in;background:white;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<b><span style="color:black;font-size:16pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">E. Victor Indiano</span></b></p>
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<span style="color:black;font-size:14pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">9795 Crosspoint Blvd. Suite 185</span></p>
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<span style="color:black;font-size:14pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Indianapolis, IN 46256</span></p>
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<span style="color:black;font-size:14pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Direct Phone:317-927-8465</span></p>
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<span style="color:black;font-size:14pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">E-Mail
<a href="mailto:Vic@IM-iplaw.com" target="_blank">Vic@IM-iplaw.com</a> </span></p>
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<span style="color:black;font-size:14pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="https://urlsand.esvalabs.com/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.indyiplaw.com%2F&e=b2b682c0&h=108844a6&f=y&p=y" title="www.indyiplaw.com" target="_blank">www.indyiplaw.com</a> </span></p>
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<span style="color:black;font-size:14pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="https://urlsand.esvalabs.com/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.im-iplaw.com%2F&e=b2b682c0&h=b10f27e7&f=y&p=y" title="www.im-iplaw.com" target="_blank">www.im-iplaw.com</a></span><span style="color:black;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><img border="0" width="180" height="150" id="m_-5887974094050897782x_x_Picture_x0020_1" style="width: 1.875in; height: 1.5625in;" src="cid:ii_18bf21a31f85b16b22"></span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James E. Lake via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 20, 2023 5:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] inventor address on patent assignment</span></p>
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<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">You will have to ask this question of each foreign associate in the states where your client may wish to file. Send them your draft assignment for review.
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<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">In my experience, it is very difficult to anticipate all of the possible informalities in a single assignment form that covers every foreign state. If you start with a proper assignment,
then it should require the assignor to cooperate in preparing follow-on assignments complying to local rules. Depending on where you file, the biggest problem you may have is not enough originally-signed and notarized copies if you file in any states that
are not parties to the Hague Convention on Apostilles <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.hcch.net_en_instruments_conventions_specialised-2Dsections_apostille&d=DwMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=P8C-YGsnS8Dh5nmYuabWokBy6XWFpcRpPMLQrRWSk5A&m=DT3qTLLUoGx2EUVTRxcEBkeuJ1WY3pEEEKR4Jw55tLvR-ieZKLUuiFw80TyHCw9q&s=9AvV5dgblW72w2IZyZOXsH5qMV21UElGQaAuxHzs9NU&e=" target="_blank">
https://www.hcch.net/en/instruments/conventions/specialised-sections/apostille</a> or otherwise require an original. Some states also require a special form.
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<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">That said, I generally list the assignor residence city, state, and country only and, if necessary, mailing address as their office address, often the same as the assignee (corporate)
residence address. When some foreign associate assignment forms I received asked for an assignor address, I used their office mailing addresses, the same as the assignee and have not received a complaint.</span></p>
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<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">James Lake</span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Umair A. Qadeer via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 19, 2023 8:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] inventor address on patent assignment</span></p>
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<p><span style="color:red">[External Email]</span></p>
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Hi all,</p>
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As most of you are likely aware, the USPTO does not require the assignor's address to be provided on a patent assignment.</p>
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Are any of you aware of any foreign jurisdictions which require the residence address of the assignor to be listed, or will providing an office address suffice?</p>
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We are trying not to have to go back and cure assignments for an invention that will likely have a lot of national phase applications, but we'd rather avoid having inventor home addresses become part of the public record.</p>
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Thanks in advance!</p>
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Best,</p>
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Umair</p>
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-----</p>
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Umair A. Qadeer</p>
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Qadeer LLC</p>
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<a href="mailto:umair@qadeerip.com" target="_blank">umair@qadeerip.com</a></p>
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