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<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">A little research shows that Wise users have been recently having difficulties. See
<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38069117" id="OWA734e20a1-dfd7-874e-dc2d-ff906ceaee70" class="OWAAutoLink">
Ask HN: Do you know what is going on at Wise? | Hacker News (ycombinator.com)</a></span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">It also appears that there are a number of similar alternatives that seem to do the same thing:</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><a href="https://www.airwallex.com/us/business-account" id="OWAd7d873bb-163d-4b8b-0744-03f348829b26" class="OWAAutoLink">Business
Accounts for Global Transactions - Airwallex</a></span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; font-size: 11pt;"><a href="https://www.revolut.com/" id="OWAfb80eddb-ad96-4e3c-6193-b27427f494be" class="OWAAutoLink">Revolut | All-in-one Finance
App for your Money | Revolut</a></span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; font-size: 11pt;"><a href="https://www.payoneer.com/business/" id="OWAef82bad4-2718-c334-91d6-a29ea747efa7" class="OWAAutoLink">Cross-border
Business Payment Account - Payoneer</a></span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; font-size: 11pt;"><a href="https://amnistreasury.com/international-payments/" id="OWAf7ad900f-448d-173a-a48f-ad7caf524de8" class="OWAAutoLink">Fast
International Money Transfers - Payments made easy | amnis (amnistreasury.com)</a></span></div>
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<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; color: rgb(31, 56, 100);"><b>Scott Nielson</b></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; color: black;">801-660-4400</span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Gerry Peters <gerrypeters@jttpatent.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 21, 2023 6:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Scott Nielson <scnielson@outlook.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Good, Inexpensive service for bank wire payments</span>
<div> </div>
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<div><span style="font-size: 11pt;">For Japan, Wise was great while it lasted (the only service of which I<br>
was aware that could do not only slow, expensive, and cumbersome wire<br>
transfers but also quick, inexpensive, and easy electronic transfers<br>
(_furikomi_) directly into Japanese bank accounts in the same way that<br>
Japanese domestic account holders do daily among themselves). Alas,<br>
it now appears that Wise is pulling out of Japan entirely. And from what<br>
I could gather from their website, I got the impression that Japan<br>
was not alone: whereas Wise used to support 100s of oddball<br>
countries and currencies, at least Wise's Japan-facing website now only<br>
shows a handful (USD, EUR, and maybe one other), and Japan/JPY is<br>
not one of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Wise is feeling the brunt<br>
of increasingly restrictive regulations and capital controls as<br>
financial authorities seem to be changing the rules daily. When I have<br>
seen such this sort of thing in the past, it has often been a precursor<br>
to what crypto folks call "shotgun-KYC" (funds held hostage until user<br>
jumps through newly imposed hoops to verify identity, etc.) or a<br>
"rugpull" (service provider goes bankrupt, management absconds with user<br>
funds to country that has no extradition treaty with one's home country,<br>
etc.). I hope I am wrong, but at least the view from Japan is not<br>
encouraging regarding ongoing use of Wise for international transfers.<br>
<br>
---Gerry<br>
<br>
Gerry Peters<br>
U.S. Patent Agent & Japanese Translator<br>
<br>
JTT K.K. (OSAKA & TOKYO JAPAN)<br>
JTT PATENT SERVICES, LLC (NH USA)<br>
JTT TRANSLATION SERVICES, LLC (NH USA)<br>
--------------------------------------------------<br>
TEL +1 206 203 5010 EMAIL info@jttpatent.com<br>
FAX +1 206 203 5020 WEB <a href="http://www.jttpatent.com/" id="OWAd4d2e6f1-245d-32e9-8f06-c6ec2cdd6d17" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">
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<br>
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2023 01:06:29 +0000<br>
From: Scott Nielson via Patentpractice<br>
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com> To: "For patent practitioners. This<br>
is not for laypersons to seek legal advice."<br>
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com> Cc: Scott Nielson<br>
<scnielson@outlook.com> Subject: Re: [Patentpractice] Good, Inexpensive<br>
service for bank wire payments<br>
<br>
Thanks for the detailed answer. I need to take another look at Wise and<br>
see if it makes sense for my use case.<br>
<br>
<br>
Scott Nielson<br>
<br>
801-660-4400<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Carl Oppedahl<br>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2023 5:29 PM<br>
To: For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal<br>
advice. Cc: For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to<br>
seek legal advice. Subject: Good, Inexpensive service for bank wire<br>
payments<br>
<br>
<br>
Let me give one example of how I think the Wise system has helped me<br>
with client billing and accounting issues.<br>
<br>
An invoice comes in from foreign counsel in (let's say) Poland. The<br>
invoice asks us to pay some number of Euros (€). So I go into Wise and<br>
I click to see the last time that I paid money to that Polish firm.<br>
And there is a button to "send again". (This means that if I somehow<br>
had avoided screwing up the IBAN and other recipient information in the<br>
past, then I don't need to worry about screwing it up this time.) Of<br>
course the source of the funds is our US dollar balance with Wise. I<br>
click around and I get to pick:<br>
<br>
* I could pick to send some exact number of USD, in which case the<br>
number of € that the Polish firm receives might be bigger or smaller<br>
depending on currency exchange rates.<br>
* I could pick that I want the Polish firm to receive some exact<br>
number of €. In that case, the number of USD that would get deducted<br>
from our US dollar balance might be more or less, depending on exchange<br>
rates.<br>
<br>
I choose the latter path because I want the Polish firm to be paid the<br>
exact number of € that is the amount of their invoice. I go to the<br>
invoice and copy the number of €, let's say it is €916. The Wise<br>
system tells me that to make this happen, I will be using 987.38 USD of<br>
my USD balance. I keep clicking and eventually it goes through.<br>
<br>
<br>
Oh and by the way the fee charged to me for the money transfer is zero<br>
because ... wait for it ... the Polish firm also uses Wise. And they<br>
will not need to incur any fee to receive the money because ... our<br>
firm and their firm are both using Wise. Oh, and they receive the<br>
money within seconds.<br>
<br>
<br>
Back to my main point. Our accounts-receivable department needs to<br>
bill our client (which is located in the US) in USD. So our<br>
accounts-receivable department wants to know just exactly, down to the<br>
penny, how many USD were involved. The point here is I can tell them<br>
in real time that it was 987.38 USD, not a penny more, not a penny<br>
less. We can bill the client essentially instantly.<br>
<br>
<br>
Second example. Suppose our client is the kind of client where we want<br>
our (US-based) client to advance the funds to us (in USD), before we<br>
authorize the foreign firm to carry out the work. What we would prefer<br>
is that we ask our client for just exactly the right number of USD, not<br>
too high, not too low. And the foreign firm already told us it will<br>
cost (let's say) €916 to do the task.<br>
<br>
<br>
And we know that there is a time gap. We might be authorizing the<br>
foreign work a month from now. But we need to know right now exactly<br>
how many USD to ask the client to advance to us. The exchange rate<br>
will be different today than it will be for a month from now. And our<br>
accounting department will go nuts if we ask for an advance, and a<br>
month from now it turns out the advance was not exactly the same. A<br>
true-up would be needed and our accounting department hates that. Plus<br>
the money was going into and out of our escrow account and the true-up<br>
makes it even more complicated.<br>
<br>
<br>
So what we do is, we use Wise to convert some of our USD into the<br>
foreign currency involved (in this case €). We have a € balance with<br>
Wise, and we do what it takes to add €916 to our Euro balance. And we<br>
know, right now, exactly how many USD were required to make that<br>
happen. So we can ask the client to advance that number of USD (plus,<br>
if needed, the fee for the wire transfer itself, which is completely<br>
predictable down to the penny). And later when we pay the foreign<br>
counsel, we send that exact €916 that we have been holding in our €<br>
balance for these weeks.<br>
<br>
<br>
No need for a true-up later because of changes in the $-and-€ exchange<br>
rate.<br>
<br>
And we know exactly how much money got charged for converting the $ to<br>
€.<br>
<br>
So we never need to do true-ups.<br>
<br>
Years ago we were constantly having to do true-ups, back when we were<br>
using Reusch and then when we were using Travelex and then when we were<br>
using Afex. Oh and heaven forbid for a while we were actually using<br>
our local bricks-and-mortar bank for the foreign money transfers (Wells<br>
Fargo). Boy that was a big mistake to use our ordinary bank. Anyway,<br>
we were constantly having to do true-ups because invariably when we<br>
quoted to the client how many USD the task was going to cost, to do<br>
something in a foreign country in Euros, the exchange rate would have<br>
later changed.<br>
<br>
<br>
Yet another thing is that if we want, we can accept payments from our<br>
European colleagues in Euros or pounds sterling or Polish Zlotys. We<br>
have bank details that permit us to receive those currencies.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 11/21/2023 4:57 PM, Scott Nielson via Patentpractice wrote:<br>
How does Wise help large firm accounting departments in the way you<br>
describe? As someone who has all those issues, especially the wire<br>
transfer fees, I'm interested in knowing how you avoid them.<br>
<br>
<br>
Scott Nielson<br>
<br>
801-660-4400<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Patentpractice<br>
<patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com><mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
on behalf of Orvis via Patentpractice<br>
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2023 4:52 PM To: For patent practitioners.<br>
This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.<br>
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Cc: Orvis <orvispc@gmail.com><mailto:orvispc@gmail.com>; Dineen Wasylik<br>
<dineen@wasylik.net><mailto:dineen@wasylik.net>; For trademark<br>
practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.<br>
<e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Patentpractice] [E-trademarks] Good, Inexpensire service<br>
for bank wire payments<br>
<br>
Wise is also great for those at large firms who's accounting department<br>
says they cannot figure out how to deliver a dollar certain to a<br>
recipient and then tells you that you need to figure out conversions<br>
and wire transfer fees along the way.<br>
<br>
Nov 21, 2023 6:09:23 PM Richard Schafer via Patentpractice<br>
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com>:<br>
<br>
Wise has been a godsend for my solo practice. Highly recommended.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Richard A. Schafer | Schafer IP Law<br>
P.O. Box 230081 | Houston, TX 77223<br>
M: 832.283.6564 | richard@schafer-ip.com<mailto:richard@schafer-ip.com><br>
<br>
From: E-trademarks<br>
<e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com><mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
On Behalf Of Dineen Wasylik via E-trademarks Sent: Tuesday, November<br>
21, 2023 11:14 AM To: For trademark practitioners. This is not for<br>
laypersons to seek legal advice.<br>
<e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Cc: Dineen Wasylik <dineen@wasylik.net><mailto:dineen@wasylik.net>;<br>
patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] Good, Inexpensire service for bank wire<br>
payments<br>
<br>
I agree with Carlk, though I think they now call it just "wise" but<br>
wise.com<<a href="http://wise.com/" id="OWA677c03e0-901a-5cb3-4d3f-dcb546e2f035" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwise.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cc55190adfcc842f23f0708dbeb00fa6a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638362161665340340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=b5D%2FWmkE%2B48xA1eGsr8EsnUL3lHyAOSRSMxaAaKVHrc%3D&reserved=0</a>>
is what I have based on recommendations from<br>
other practitioners. It is easy and much less expensive than<br>
bank-based wires. It handles currency conversion much better than my<br>
bank folks did, too.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Dineen<br>
<br>
On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 5:58 AM Carl Oppedahl via E-trademarks<br>
<e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
See<br>
<a href="https://blog.oppedahl.com/eventually-every-patent-and-trademark-firm-will-have-a-transferwise-account/" id="OWA7377fdbe-eae4-55fa-df8a-2cdba0ed0c1b" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.oppedahl.com%2Feventually-every-patent-and-trademark-firm-will-have-a-transferwise-account%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cc55190adfcc842f23f0708dbeb00fa6a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638362161665340340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FoE%2FCMiNoEAUppHHtcBciK%2FfznjlkttHr5sbEkq4ao0%3D&reserved=0</a><br>
<br>
On 11/20/2023 10:53 PM, voyer--- via E-trademarks wrote:<br>
> A year or maybe more ago, there was elist discussion of a good,<br>
> inexpensive service for bank wire services. At least internationally,<br>
> perhaps also domestic. My saved copy is now hiding from me. Would<br>
> appreciate contact info for that service, and it is stlil a good<br>
> recommendation. Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Daniel Kegan * 847-452-2599<br>
> Baron Harris Healey, Of Counsel<br>
> <DKegan@BHHLawFirm.com<mailto:DKegan@BHHLawFirm.com>><br>
> <<a href="http://www.bhhlawfirm.com/" id="OWA55ab1da5-cb79-625d-8d5f-f0b86f2dfd89" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bhhlawfirm.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cc55190adfcc842f23f0708dbeb00fa6a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638362161665340340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KP55DM1Z4gr8bw0K%2FonZTMsptL6%2Boq1tPssexrjhorg%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bhhlawfirm.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cc55190adfcc842f23f0708dbeb00fa6a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638362161665340340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KP55DM1Z4gr8bw0K%2FonZTMsptL6%2Boq1tPssexrjhorg%3D&reserved=0</a>>><br>
> Balanced Counsel for Smart Clients®<br>
> 29 Kendal Dr<br>
> Kennett Square PA 19348-2323 USA<br>
--<br>
E-trademarks mailing list<br>
E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:E-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
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