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Thanks for the detailed answer. I need to take another look at Wise and see if it makes sense for my use case.</div>
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<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; color: rgb(31, 56, 100);"><b>Scott Nielson</b></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; color: black;">801-660-4400</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Carl Oppedahl<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 21, 2023 5:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.<br>
<b>Cc:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Good, Inexpensive service for bank wire payments </span>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Let me give one example of how I think the Wise system has helped me with client billing and accounting issues.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">An invoice comes in from foreign counsel in (let's say) Poland. The invoice asks us to pay some number of Euros (€). So I go into Wise and I click to see the last time that I paid money to that Polish firm.
And there is a button to "send again". (This means that if I somehow had avoided screwing up the IBAN and other recipient information in the past, then I don't need to worry about screwing it up this time.) Of course the source of the funds is our US dollar
balance with Wise. I click around and I get to pick:</p>
<ul style="list-style-type: disc;">
<li>I could pick to send some exact number of USD, in which case the number of € that the Polish firm receives might be bigger or smaller depending on currency exchange rates.</li><li>I could pick that I want the Polish firm to receive some exact number of €. In that case, the number of USD that would get deducted from our US dollar balance might be more or less, depending on exchange rates.</li></ul>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">I choose the latter path because I want the Polish firm to be paid the exact number of € that is the amount of their invoice. I go to the invoice and copy the number of €, let's say it is €916. The Wise system
tells me that to make this happen, I will be using 987.38 USD of my USD balance. I keep clicking and eventually it goes through.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Oh and by the way the fee charged to me for the money transfer is zero because ... wait for it ... the Polish firm also uses Wise. And they will not need to incur any fee to receive the money because ... our
firm and their firm are both using Wise. Oh, and they receive the money within seconds.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Back to my main point. Our accounts-receivable department needs to bill our client (which is located in the US) in USD. So our accounts-receivable department wants to know just exactly, down to the penny, how
many USD were involved. The point here is I can tell them in real time that it was 987.38 USD, not a penny more, not a penny less. We can bill the client essentially instantly.</p>
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</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Second example. Suppose our client is the kind of client where we want our (US-based) client to advance the funds to us (in USD), before we authorize the foreign firm to carry out the work. What we would prefer
is that we ask our client for just exactly the right number of USD, not too high, not too low. And the foreign firm already told us it will cost (let's say) €916 to do the task.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">And we know that there is a time gap. We might be authorizing the foreign work a month from now. But we need to know right now exactly how many USD to ask the client to advance to us. The exchange rate will
be different today than it will be for a month from now. And our accounting department will go nuts if we ask for an advance, and a month from now it turns out the advance was not exactly the same. A true-up would be needed and our accounting department
hates that. Plus the money was going into and out of our escrow account and the true-up makes it even more complicated.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">So what we do is, we use Wise to convert some of our USD into the foreign currency involved (in this case €). We have a € balance with Wise, and we do what it takes to add €916 to our Euro balance. And we know,
right now, exactly how many USD were required to make that happen. So we can ask the client to advance that number of USD (plus, if needed, the fee for the wire transfer itself, which is completely predictable down to the penny). And later when we pay the
foreign counsel, we send that exact €916 that we have been holding in our € balance for these weeks.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">No need for a true-up later because of changes in the $-and-€ exchange rate. </p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">And we know exactly how much money got charged for converting the $ to €.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">So we never need to do true-ups.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Years ago we were constantly having to do true-ups, back when we were using Reusch and then when we were using Travelex and then when we were using Afex. Oh and heaven forbid for a while we were actually using
our local bricks-and-mortar bank for the foreign money transfers (Wells Fargo). Boy that was a big mistake to use our ordinary bank. Anyway, we were constantly having to do true-ups because invariably when we quoted to the client how many USD the task was
going to cost, to do something in a foreign country in Euros, the exchange rate would have later changed.</p>
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</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Yet another thing is that if we want, we can accept payments from our European colleagues in Euros or pounds sterling or Polish Zlotys. We have bank details that permit us to receive those currencies.</p>
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<div>On 11/21/2023 4:57 PM, Scott Nielson via Patentpractice wrote:</div>
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How does Wise help large firm accounting departments in the way you describe? As someone who has all those issues, especially the wire transfer fees, I'm interested in knowing how you avoid them.</div>
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<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; color: rgb(31, 56, 100);"><b>Scott Nielson</b></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, serif; color: black;">801-660-4400</span></p>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Patentpractice
<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWAfd8a0034-ba3d-0f0c-e9d3-c2cda04402b3" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> on behalf of Orvis via Patentpractice
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA6cb12843-c317-28a5-86f3-c420978e015d" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 21, 2023 4:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA1636865c-d987-8c29-173f-eb12de7935b2" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Orvis <a href="mailto:orvispc@gmail.com" id="OWAdb7f9ec6-bec0-4bc3-3e97-3c1402cc43e7" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<orvispc@gmail.com></a>; Dineen Wasylik <a href="mailto:dineen@wasylik.net" id="OWA83a7c78c-43db-9b09-63bc-200b81ed8cf1" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<dineen@wasylik.net></a>; For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA5fd5fc4a-2c3e-55d6-4e95-d80ad74d8269" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] [E-trademarks] Good, Inexpensire service for bank wire payments</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="font-family: sans-serif;">Wise is also great for those at large firms who's accounting department says they cannot figure out how to deliver a dollar certain to a recipient and then tells you that you need to figure out conversions and wire transfer
fees along the way.</div>
<p style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><span style="font-family: sans-serif;">Nov 21, 2023 6:09:23 PM Richard Schafer via Patentpractice
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA7d791c0f-89dc-e5dc-e36a-247a2152b88f" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a>:</span></p>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: 3px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Goudy Old Style", serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Wise has been a godsend for my solo practice. Highly recommended.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Goudy Old Style", serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Best regards,<br>
<b>Richard A. Schafer | Schafer IP Law</b></span><span style="font-family: Garamond, serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: "Goudy Old Style", serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">P.O. Box 230081 | Houston, TX 77223<br>
M: 832.283.6564 | </span><span style="font-family: "Goudy Old Style", serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);"><a href="mailto:richard@schafer-ip.com" id="OWA2efb3fa7-d02d-9e1e-90da-3672013b661a" class="OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">richard@schafer-ip.com</a></span></p>
<div style="padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-top: 1pt solid rgb(225, 225, 225);">
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> E-trademarks
<a href="mailto:e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWAd8c540ab-cb9b-3074-e346-c942c1dffb2e" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<e-trademarks-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dineen Wasylik via E-trademarks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 21, 2023 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA2c05fcd6-5bce-e4e0-1c7e-33e6fcf7f3ec" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dineen Wasylik <a href="mailto:dineen@wasylik.net" id="OWAd0e7c412-2f33-1001-15c2-a69ab8a02404" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<dineen@wasylik.net></a>; <a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA57f98c5c-a7a6-bc5e-49d5-cca96aeb19a4" class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [E-trademarks] Good, Inexpensire service for bank wire payments</p>
</div>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">I agree with Carlk, though I think they now call it just "wise" but
<a href="http://wise.com/" id="OWAbd68aa96-a8dc-b7d4-34d3-a46102967eae" class="OWAAutoLink" shash="fCCmTXVHR+V5HqVCn7p+X1zfxsWNilMcR+5Nyb1VdVqUbgakEzI2jhl/nAR9bWW1jJ0t3g+PsAsHcFCGCmkAXUCGdK5Yx5s4BxNvQANGT1R4qdqCf2e4bhLDgbYiMUncQKDeUQn9u/bj9myUd2tfP0fcoJQVbBnXWjDOrqOLNcg=" originalsrc="http://wise.com/" data-auth="VerificationFailed" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
wise.com</a> is what I have based on recommendations from other practitioners. It is easy and much less expensive than bank-based wires. It handles currency conversion much better than my bank folks did, too.</p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Best,</p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Dineen</p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 5:58 AM Carl Oppedahl via E-trademarks <<a href="mailto:e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA15d63990-df49-4cfe-93e4-3ea6cb28a513" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">e-trademarks@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 4.8pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; border-left: 1pt solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">See<br>
<a href="https://blog.oppedahl.com/eventually-every-patent-and-trademark-firm-will-have-a-transferwise-account/" id="OWA52851d52-835a-30e5-1c84-338e92e66cd5" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext OWAAutoLink" shash="WhiiyD66lVhKzRFGpLx0krvGZJKYWuNmGq+D1HsGRUWZo+pu05nzigV3MuLeZlcPBqFbHUqY7Mut3Gy8495rakcbh0xdcf16p5wuuGpJDasEwFJ2Hlfg5sTFK96496dVvbKQQec1FzQhGXyC6QrRGHh6AJ7FcxOxikpTNAn4vcg=" originalsrc="https://blog.oppedahl.com/eventually-every-patent-and-trademark-firm-will-have-a-transferwise-account/" data-auth="VerificationFailed" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">https://blog.oppedahl.com/eventually-every-patent-and-trademark-firm-will-have-a-transferwise-account/</a><br>
<br>
On 11/20/2023 10:53 PM, voyer--- via E-trademarks wrote:<br>
> A year or maybe more ago, there was elist discussion of a good, inexpensive service for bank wire services.<br>
> At least internationally, perhaps also domestic. My saved copy is now hiding from me.<br>
> Would appreciate contact info for that service, and it is stlil a good recommendation. Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Daniel Kegan * 847-452-2599<br>
> Baron Harris Healey, Of Counsel<br>
> <<a href="mailto:DKegan@BHHLawFirm.com" id="OWA9ae8a432-056c-1b1e-3a6f-865c2098546f" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext OWAAutoLink" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">DKegan@BHHLawFirm.com</a>><br>
> <<a href="http://www.bhhlawfirm.com/" id="OWA577ab904-d8a0-8f8a-3203-0002de2a7a1f" class="OWAAutoLink" shash="iyu7t2DNzdbrx06ffirLrnTzXF+TMHeZMqGosWcPb/t+bQLChzQiWMA+/r+LPdE+sYocNJbndd/DjiyiLyFTswUPFDkXMza3SIYrI1Us04AC1PVOjJml73lxDWYh5FJKkbeSjl5uFKJb5rp46kNVDFqFWJbwkbyBQuC/NGgkDxs=" originalsrc="http://www.bhhlawfirm.com/" data-auth="VerificationFailed" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">http://www.BHHLawFirm.com</a>><br>
> Balanced Counsel for Smart Clients®<br>
> 29 Kendal Dr<br>
> Kennett Square PA 19348-2323 USA<br>
--<br>
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