<div dir="ltr"><div>Scott's 60% affirm rate isn't the whole story.Â  Some years ago (like 15) I asked for ALL the statistics by Freedom of Information Act.Â Â  When you add up --</div><div>Â Â Â Â Â  -- reverse on pre-appeal</div><div>Â Â Â Â Â  -- examiner can't write an Examiner's Answer and gives up</div><div>Â Â Â Â Â  -- Board reverses</div><div>the <b>win</b> rate is 70-80%Â Â  The Board affirms only about 20% of appealed issues.</div><div><br></div><div>This varies a lot by technology and issue.Â  For example, the affirm rate for Â§Â 101

<i>

 Alice</i> issues is much higher than for Â§Â 112 and Â§Â 102/103</div><div><br></div><div><br>

</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 9:50â€¯PM Scott Nielson via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg437023934041876327">

<div dir="ltr">

<div style="font-family:"Aptos Serif",Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">

Regarding PTAB stats, this <a href="https://www.uspto.gov/patents/ptab/statistics" title="https://www.uspto.gov/patents/ptab/statistics" target="_blank">

page</a>Â has what you are looking for. In FY <a href="https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/fy23_appeal_receipts_and_dispositions_september2023_.pdf" title="https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/fy23_appeal_receipts_and_dispositions_september2023_.pdf" target="_blank">

2023</a>Â (just ended in Sept), the PTAB affirmed the examiner 58.3% of the time, affirmed-in-part 9.1% of the time, and reversed 31.9% of the time.</div>

<div style="font-family:"Aptos Serif",Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">

<br>

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<div style="font-family:"Aptos Serif",Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">

I file a lot of appeals and I've had good luck. However, I just lost one the other day where the PTAB rehabilitated the examiner's lousy rejections (complete with new grounds of rejection for some of the dependent claims I thought we would for sure win on).

 It goes to show that there is always an element of uncertainty when you go to the Board.Â </div>

<div style="font-family:"Aptos Serif",Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">

<br>

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<div id="m_-3321099755964758461Signature">

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos Serif",Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,serif;color:rgb(31,56,100)"><b>Scott Nielson</b></span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos Serif",Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,serif;color:black">801-660-4400</span></p>

</div>

<div id="m_-3321099755964758461appendonsend"></div>

<div style="font-family:"Aptos Serif",Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">

<br>

</div>

<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">

<div id="m_-3321099755964758461divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>From:</b>Â Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> on behalf of Katherine Koenig via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>

<b>Sent:</b>Â Tuesday, December 5, 2023 6:42 PM<br>

<b>To:</b>Â <a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a> <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>

<b>Cc:</b>Â Katherine Koenig <<a href="mailto:katherine@koenigipworks.com" target="_blank">katherine@koenigipworks.com</a>><br>

<b>Subject:</b>Â [Patentpractice] New Examiner?</span>

<div>Â </div>

</div>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Hi everyone,</p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Â </p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Iâ€™m prosecuting a US-inbound case for a mechanical product.Â  Iâ€™ve had a terrible go with the Examiner, who appears to be steered by his SPEâ€™s opinion about the case.Â  According to PatentBots,

 the Examiner has a 64% 3-year grant rate (slightly lower than his art unit) and his SPE has a

<b><u>0%</u> </b>3-year grant rate (slightly lower than [insert villain here]).Â  The client is an FA, and he and his client are both really hoping for a better chance of patentability.</p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Â </p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">My understanding is that thereâ€™s no way to request a different Examiner, and even DIVs, CONs, and CIPs are likely to be assigned to the same Examiner.Â  The only way to get a different

 Examiner is to present claims that would move the application to a different art unit.Â  Is this correct?Â  I hope someone has a magic strategy that I donâ€™t know about!</p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Â </p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Statistically, does the PTAB uphold a rejection more often than it reverses?Â  Any input or suggestions would be welcome, thank you!</p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Â </p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:black">Best regards,</span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:black">Â </span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:black">Katherine</span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:black">Â </span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:black">Dr. Katherine Koenig</span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:black"><i>Registered Patent Attorney</i></span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:black">Koenig IP Works, PLLC</span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:black">2208 Mariner Dr.</span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:black">Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316</span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:black">(954) 903-1699</span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:blue"><a href="mailto:katherine@koenigipworks.com" id="m_-3321099755964758461OWA21f6249c-ecae-554e-267c-40687384ee71" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:blue" target="_blank">katherine@koenigipworks.com</a></span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Corbel,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:black">Â </span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><img id="m_-3321099755964758461x_Picture_x0020_2" style="width: 1.6041in; height: 0.427in; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" src="cid:ii_18c3f08550f4cff311"></span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Candara,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;color:black"><i>Targeted Intellectual Property Strategy</i></span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Candara,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;color:black">Â </span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:Candara,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;color:black"><i>The information contained in this communication, including any attachments, is privileged and confidential

 information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.Â  If

</i></span><span style="font-family:Candara,sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><i>you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution,

 or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.Â  If you have received this communication in error, do not read it.Â  Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error and then destroy all paper and electronic

 copies.Â  Thank you.</i></span></p>

<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Â </p>

</div>

-- <br>

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</div></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><span><span><span><span><span><p style="margin:0px 0px 10px;color:rgb(102,127,160);font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif,Arial;font-size:12px"><a border="0" href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy" style="color:rgb(102,127,160);text-decoration:none;outline:none;background:transparent 0px 0px" target="_blank"><img alt="" src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wHwYjQzxHxAaQrLX1XiLlcQpAZ83upYUjMvJLtwefIP8dBVb6tJA9Yn2W4bPdW2A18c1EIEHg" width="73" height="92"> Â  Â  Â  <br></a></p></span></span></span></span></span><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(50,49,48);font-weight:normal;text-align:start;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:15px">

<b><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(96,110,154)">David BoundyÂ </span></b><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(124,134,154)">| PartnerÂ </span><span style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(124,134,154)"><span style="margin:0px;background-color:white;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">|</span><span style="margin:0px;background-color:white"><span style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Â </span></span></span><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(124,134,154)">PotomacÂ Law

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