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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D">How can the failure of the PTO’s internal process to properly obtain the text from a PDF file be anything but a PTO error? Until the PTO starts refusing to
accept anything but DOCX file (and I do think that’s likely to happen eventually), the PTO accepts PDF files as legitimate input. If they fail to process it correctly, that’s absolutely their error, not the applicant’s. That’s particularly true where the PTO
is using a technique (OCR) that is known to be capable of introducing errors.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Best regards,<br>
<b>Richard A. Schafer | Schafer IP Law</b></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">P.O. Box 230081 | Houston, TX 77223<br>
M: 832.283.6564 | </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:richard@schafer-ip.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">richard@schafer-ip.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Carl Oppedahl via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 1, 2024 3:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Carl Oppedahl <carl@oppedahl.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] [Patentcenter] two questions about the dreaded .DOCX situation<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>What's really sad about it, if this is really what goes on, is that almost certainly what Margaret e-filed was a text-rich PDF (she almost certainly printed to PDF from her word processor). As such, the USPTO did not need to do OCR at all. The USPTO could
have scraped the computer-readable characters from the text-rich PDF.<span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/1/2024 2:25 PM, Timothy Snowden via Patentpractice wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Wow Margaret -- I didn't see that one coming.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Just to make sure I understand:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* you file PDF (no errors)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* the USPTO's 'scanning process' introduces errors<br>
* you file for correction --> the errors are your fault because you chose to upload PDF instead of DOCX<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If I'm understanding this new reality correctly, it seems like we're stuck with Reissue or Petition (maybe) regardless of whether the surcharge is paid or not. Maybe this helps make sure a PDF-filer doesn't get any benefits from filing
a PDF?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/1/2024 3:13 PM, Margaret Polson via Patentpractice wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Fun fact, if you try to get your publication fixed “for USPTO error” your petition will be denied saying that scanning errors cause by your filing a pdf (this is before
the surcharge) are not a USPTO error. (the error was in the claims, clearly material error)
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Patentcenter <a href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com">
<patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Boundy via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 1, 2024 8:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Boundy <a href="mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com"><DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com></a>; Users of Patentcenter
<a href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a>; William Ahmed
<a href="mailto:ahmed.william@ymail.com"><ahmed.william@ymail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter] [Patentpractice] two questions about the dreaded .DOCX situation<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, you can rely on the incorporated-by-reference parent to correct errors introduced by the PTO.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The existence of a path to get a correction is only half the problem. The other half is that the PTO will not reimburse you or your client for the costs of doing the proofreading, error checking, or correction.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 8:41 AM William Ahmed via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Dear List,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Question A --> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Suppose we (i) file the spec in .DOCX for a US non-provisional under 35 USC 111 and </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">(ii) 20 minutes after filing on the DAY of filing, we submit a preliminary amendment in PDF on the day of filing,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">does this PDF preliminary amendment trigger the .DOCX surcharge?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Question B [unrelated]--> hypothetically, let's say we file .DOCX without the auxiliary pdf - we would NEVER do that, but let's just say hypothetically.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Let's assume that this patent application is a CON [parent filed in pdf format] of a published/pending US patent non-provisional application,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">and that on page 1 of the .DOCX spec the CON parent is incorporated by reference.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">The patent grants, and there are problems with the granted patents due to USPTO .DOCX technology issues (e.g. one of the equations is converted</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">into block symbols or otherwise downgraded). I have no AUX-PDF to save me in this situation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Would the incorporation-by-reference save the situation?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Thank you,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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