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<p>What's really sad about it, if this is really what goes on, is
that almost certainly what Margaret e-filed was a text-rich PDF
(she almost certainly printed to PDF from her word processor). As
such, the USPTO did not need to do OCR at all. The USPTO could
have scraped the computer-readable characters from the text-rich
PDF.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/1/2024 2:25 PM, Timothy Snowden
via Patentpractice wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:73936d57-2c36-46d4-bd74-a43908c21e07@thompsonpatentlaw.com">
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<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="3b1f849e-df1a-47f0-a9c3-2130023b23a0">Wow
Margaret -- I didn't see that one coming.</div>
<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="3b1f849e-df1a-47f0-a9c3-2130023b23a0"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="3b1f849e-df1a-47f0-a9c3-2130023b23a0">Just
to make sure I understand:</div>
<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="3b1f849e-df1a-47f0-a9c3-2130023b23a0">* you
file PDF (no errors)<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="3b1f849e-df1a-47f0-a9c3-2130023b23a0">* the
USPTO's 'scanning process' introduces errors<br>
* you file for correction --> the errors are your fault
because you chose to upload PDF instead of DOCX</div>
<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="3b1f849e-df1a-47f0-a9c3-2130023b23a0"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="3b1f849e-df1a-47f0-a9c3-2130023b23a0">If
I'm understanding this new reality correctly, it seems like
we're stuck with Reissue or Petition (maybe) regardless of
whether the surcharge is paid or not. Maybe this helps make sure
a PDF-filer doesn't get any benefits from filing a PDF?</div>
<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="3b1f849e-df1a-47f0-a9c3-2130023b23a0"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="3b1f849e-df1a-47f0-a9c3-2130023b23a0"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="3b1f849e-df1a-47f0-a9c3-2130023b23a0">On
2/1/2024 3:13 PM, Margaret Polson via Patentpractice wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BY1PR19MB80139D348C5D8BDC9DD28D42BB432@BY1PR19MB8013.namprd19.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Fun
fact, if you try to get your publication fixed “for USPTO
error” your petition will be denied saying that scanning
errors cause by your filing a pdf (this is before the
surcharge) are not a USPTO error. (the error was in the
claims, clearly material error) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Patentcenter <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Boundy via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 1, 2024 8:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for
laypersons to seek legal advice. <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Boundy <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com></a>;
Users of Patentcenter <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a>;
William Ahmed <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ahmed.william@ymail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><ahmed.william@ymail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter] [Patentpractice] two
questions about the dreaded .DOCX situation<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, you can rely on the
incorporated-by-reference parent to correct errors
introduced by the PTO.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The existence of a path to get a
correction is only half the problem. The other half is
that the PTO will not reimburse you or your client for
the costs of doing the proofreading, error checking, or
correction.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 8:41 AM
William Ahmed via Patentpractice <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Dear
List,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Question
A --> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Suppose
we (i) file the spec in .DOCX for a US
non-provisional under 35 USC 111 and <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">(ii)
20 minutes after filing on the DAY of filing, we
submit a preliminary amendment in PDF on the day
of filing,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">does
this PDF preliminary amendment trigger the
.DOCX surcharge?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Question
B [unrelated]--> hypothetically, let's say we
file .DOCX without the auxiliary pdf - we would
NEVER do that, but let's just say
hypothetically.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Let's
assume that this patent application is a CON
[parent filed in pdf format] of a
published/pending US patent non-provisional
application,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">and
that on page 1 of the .DOCX spec the CON parent
is incorporated by reference.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">The
patent grants, and there are problems with the
granted patents due to USPTO .DOCX technology
issues (e.g. one of the equations is converted<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">into
block symbols or otherwise downgraded). I have
no AUX-PDF to save me in this situation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Would
the incorporation-by-reference save the
situation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Thank
you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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