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<font face="Times New Roman">First, Margaret would be able to prove
to the satisfaction of the PTO or a court that the specification
she filed in pdf format (that is not a DOCX filing) was the
legally operative copy. See </font>“<a
href="https://www.neifeld.com/pubs/2009_reviewefsweb.pdf"
target="_blank">Review of Legal Framework for Electronic Filing
System-Web (EFS-Web), 74 FR 55200-211 (2009)</a>” Rick Neifeld,
October 27, 2009. ("Accordingly, the official record for the patent
application and reexamination ... comprises ... the Electronic
Acknowledgment Receipt ....") The EAR includes the digest section
which includes the SHA-512 value for each file Margaret uploaded and
filed. No one can argue with the correlation of a SHA-512 produces
hash value for a file. Identify of hash value means to an almost
mathematical certainty identity of input files.<br>
<br>
Second, merely having the right to correct, unfortunately, does not
mean instantaneous correction. More specifically, for causes of
action arising before an error preventing a patent from is valid and
infringed, is corrected by issuance of a COC, there is no right to
relief. I recall cases where the error discovered after suit was
filed resulted in the judge excluding the deficient patent from the
law suit, which de facto made the patent unenforceable in that
dispute. However that is not the case for a judicial (district
court) de jure error correction, which would be effective during
litigation. See Novo Indus., L.P. v. Micro Molds Corp., 350 F.3d
1348 (Fed. Cir. 2003). <br>
<br>
On those facts, I would prefer defending (against an attack and the
propriety of the specification) a patent the PTO misprinted when I
had filed a pdf (non DOCX) specification, rather than a DOCX (with
an aux pdf) the PTO misprinted. Why? Because pdf filing forecloses
arguments by the defendant that the patentee was partially at fault
for failing to properly review the specification and fix errors.
When you pdf file, you pdf file the document you upload. If your
uploaded document has no errors, there is no basis to allege failure
to review the uploaded file was related to some PTO printing error.
In contrast, the screwy DOCX filing warns you to carefully review
their garbled version of your uploaded DOCX file as garbled by the
PTO, and to be responsible for any errors in their garbled version,
and only allows you to file the garbled version. So the blame is on
you, the filer. Putting myself in front of a district court judge
who is deciding whether to judicially correct a defective patent,
the equities favor the patent resulting from the pdf filed
specification. Therefore, whatever discretion the judge has under
the standards for judicial correct (<i>See</i>, Neifeld, "Law
Regarding Patents", subsection "Judicial Correction of a claim, by
interpretation, of Patents,") would favor judicial correction.<br>
<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/1/2024 5:12 PM, Roger Browdy via
Patentpractice wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal">That’s outrageous. I would definitely
petition that. There is absolutely no justification for
calling that applicant error. It should be made a test case
and taken all the way to the Supreme Court (I know, that’s
easy for me to say).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Roger<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Patentcenter
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Margaret Polson via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 1, 2024 4:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For bug reports, feature requests, and tips and
tricks about Patent Center.
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com></a>; For patent
practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal
advice. <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Margaret Polson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:MPolson@polsoniplaw.com"><MPolson@polsoniplaw.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter] [Patentpractice] two
questions about the dreaded .DOCX situation<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Fun
fact, if you try to get your publication fixed “for USPTO
error” your petition will be denied saying that scanning
errors cause by your filing a pdf (this is before the
surcharge) are not a USPTO error. (the error was in the
claims, clearly material error)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Patentcenter <<a
href="mailto:patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentcenter-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Boundy via Patentcenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 1, 2024 8:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for
laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Boundy <<a
href="mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com</a>>;
Users of Patentcenter <<a
href="mailto:patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentcenter@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>;
William Ahmed <<a href="mailto:ahmed.william@ymail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ahmed.william@ymail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentcenter] [Patentpractice] two
questions about the dreaded .DOCX situation<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, you can rely on the
incorporated-by-reference parent to correct errors
introduced by the PTO.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The existence of a path to get a
correction is only half the problem. The other half is
that the PTO will not reimburse you or your client for the
costs of doing the proofreading, error checking, or
correction.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 8:41 AM William
Ahmed via Patentpractice <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Dear
List,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Question
A --> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Suppose
we (i) file the spec in .DOCX for a US
non-provisional under 35 USC 111 and <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">(ii)
20 minutes after filing on the DAY of filing, we
submit a preliminary amendment in PDF on the day
of filing,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">does
this PDF preliminary amendment trigger the .DOCX
surcharge?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Question
B [unrelated]--> hypothetically, let's say we
file .DOCX without the auxiliary pdf - we would
NEVER do that, but let's just say hypothetically.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Let's
assume that this patent application is a CON
[parent filed in pdf format] of a
published/pending US patent non-provisional
application,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">and
that on page 1 of the .DOCX spec the CON parent is
incorporated by reference.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">The
patent grants, and there are problems with the
granted patents due to USPTO .DOCX technology
issues (e.g. one of the equations is converted<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">into
block symbols or otherwise downgraded). I have no
AUX-PDF to save me in this situation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Would
the incorporation-by-reference save the situation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Thank
you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
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</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<br>
<span class="gmailsignatureprefix">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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