<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>What Richard said.  And recall that for each account, the USPTO
      uses a particular data field to keep extremely close track of
      whether the accountholder has or has not shown a photo ID and so
      on to prove exactly who they are.  And the various USPTO systems
      then permit or deny access depending on the status of that data
      field.  There has been a "system creep" of the use of that field,
      most recently for access to the TEAS functions.  I would be
      astonished if the system creep were to do anything other than
      eventually reach all USPTO systems that use any kind of login. 
      And I would also be astonished if the system creep requiring user
      login were to do anything other than to eventually reach nearly
      all USPTO systems.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Meaning, if you were to try to use a single account as if it were
      a multi-person role-based account, it would quickly come to light
      in the USPTO login/authentication workflow.</p>
    <p>Coming back around to the starting point of the earlier poster,
      what all of this means is that if the USPTO were to set a goal of
      being nice to its paying customers, the USPTO would from the
      beginning of each software initiative) design into the system
      collaborative workflow, project sharing, access sharing,
      second-pair-of eyes sharing, and so on.</p>
    <p>The challenge is that as a general rule, such "sharing" functions
      need to have been designed in from the very beginnings of the
      system design.  It is almost always nearly impossible to "add in"
      these kinds of sharing functions in any sensible way if you wait
      until long after the system is fully designed and deployed and
      only then try to do it.</p>
    <p>To give an example of doing it right, the ePCT system was
      designed from the very outset so that an eOwner could selectively
      give access to selected applications to others, including giving
      eOwner access to others.  From the outset, there was the ability
      to "share" an address book of frequently used inventor names,
      applicant names, and so on.  From the outset, it was (and still
      is) the ability to pick and choose levels of access (eViewer,
      eOwner, eEditor) to give to various colleagues, clients, inventors
      and so on.  From the outset, the group of people being given any
      particular level of access could be specifically tied to
      individual choices about particular applications (not linked in
      any required all-or-nothing way to "all files having a particular
      customer number" or "all files that I the attorney get to see when
      I log in").</p>
    <p>In Patent Center, if you as an attorney have access to, say, 2037
      applications, and if you decide to "sponsor" a particular
      paralegal, then the only choice is, that paralegal gets access to
      2037 applications.  It is impossible for you the attorney to be
      selective about which of those 2037 applications the paralegal has
      access to.</p>
    <p>In Assignment Center it is, apparently, impossible to give any
      kind of access in your own workbench to any colleague.  No shared
      access for workflow, no shared access for sharing "stored data".</p>
    <p>And the problem is that if the software developer failed to
      design in any kind of shared access starting at the beginning, it
      almost always turns out to be either impossible, or only very
      clunky, to try to graft on any shared access to another person.</p>
    <p>To give another example of USPTO getting it wrong on "shared
      acccess", look at Financial Manager (FM).  If a new employee
      starts work with your firm and needs to be given "shared access",
      then the click path to onboard that new employee in FM is some
      number of clicks (these days around eight clicks) times the number
      of payment methods.  So if you have, say, ten payment methods,
      then the onboarding process is eighty mouse clicks.  It is
      impossible to tell FM with just a few mouse clicks "give this new
      person access to the following selected seven payment methods" or
      "give this person access to all of our firm's payment methods". 
      When an employee has a "last day of work", the process in FM to
      turn off that employee's access to all of the ten payment methods
      will be ... sorry to say ... a corresponding eighty mouse clicks.</p>
    <p>All because the setup of FM, from the outset, failed to be smart
      about how shared access would work.<br>
    </p>
    <p>In contrast, in ePCT, the "last day of work" click path is only a
      few mouse clicks regardless of the number of applications
      involved.  But this is the case only because the designers of ePCT
      had designed that system from day one to have sensible shared
      access.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/6/2024 2:44 PM, Richard Schafer
      via Patentpractice wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:SA1PR05MB798346EAACF959C17CD6203B8E462@SA1PR05MB7983.namprd05.prod.outlook.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <meta name="Generator"
        content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
      <style>@font-face
        {font-family:"Cambria Math";
        panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
        {font-family:Calibri;
        panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face
        {font-family:Aptos;}@font-face
        {font-family:"Goudy Old Style";
        panose-1:2 2 5 2 5 3 5 2 3 3;}@font-face
        {font-family:Garamond;
        panose-1:2 2 4 4 3 3 1 1 8 3;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
        {margin:0in;
        font-size:11.0pt;
        font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        color:blue;
        text-decoration:underline;}span.EmailStyle21
        {mso-style-type:personal-reply;
        font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;
        color:#1F497D;}.MsoChpDefault
        {mso-style-type:export-only;
        font-size:10.0pt;
        mso-ligatures:none;}div.WordSection1
        {page:WordSection1;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D">I’m
            pretty sure that the PTO rules require every account to be
            for a single person only and disallow this kind of
            role-based multi-person account. 
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Best
              regards,<br>
              <b>Richard A. Schafer | Schafer IP Law</b></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><br>
            </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">P.O.
              Box 230081 | Houston, TX 77223<br>
              M: 832.283.6564 | </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D"><a
                href="mailto:richard@schafer-ip.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">richard@schafer-ip.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Patentpractice
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
              <b>On Behalf Of </b>James Katz via Patentpractice<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 6, 2024 5:21 AM<br>
              <b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for
              laypersons to seek legal advice.
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
              <b>Cc:</b> James Katz <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jkatz@lsk-iplaw.com"><jkatz@lsk-iplaw.com></a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Assignment Center -
              can you save progress part way through? No<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">So we have
            now found that Assignment Center appears to “silently”
            automatically save in-process submissions.  We have tested
            abandoning a submission at various screens, including at the
            final submission screen and have found that our progress was
            saved and we could return later to complete the submission.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">So in order
            to implement a second pair of eyes on submissions, our
            assistants will stop once they reach the submit screen,
            return to the home screen, go back in to the saved
            submission and print the completed cover sheet to PDF, they
            will then email that PDF to the attorney along with a copy
            of the assignment document that was uploaded.  The attorney
            will review and respond with approval after which the
            assistant will go back in and submit.  At least one downside
            to this approach is that the attorney will be unable to
            review the actual uploaded assignment document.  So if the
            wrong document was uploaded, but the right document was
            attached to the email for review, the attorney will not
            know.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Another
            solution we considered but discarded was to create a
            dedicated MyUSPTO account for assignment submissions to
            which everyone has access. This would allow one to go in and
            review a saved submission.  However, not only would this be
            cumbersome to have to log out of one’s personal MyUSPTO
            account and into another (and maintain two 2FA entries,
            etc.), it was also unclear if multiple users could be logged
            in to the same account at once. I also did not check if this
            would violate some PTO TOS somewhere.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Another
            thing we have found is that when entering multiple email
            addresses to receive submission confirmations, etc., each
            recipient will receive an email addressed only to them. So
            from that email you cannot tell who the other recipients
            are.  Furthermore, the email itself, e.g., the subject line
            and body, do not identify the application number or
            client/matter.  Only the id number assigned to the
            submission by Assignment Center is identified.  You have to
            open up the attached cover sheet document to see the
            application number.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Jim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">James L. Katz</span></b><span
            style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">patent attorney<br>
            312.854.8372 ▪ direct<br>
            312.291.0864 ▪ fax<br>
            <a href="mailto:jkatz@lsk-iplaw.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:#0563C1">jkatz@lsk-iplaw.com</span></a><br>
            <br>
            <b>LEMPIA SUMMERFIELD KATZ LLC</b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">20 south clark
            street, suite 600 ▪ chicago, illinois 60603  ▪ <a
              href="http://www.lsk-iplaw.com/" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:#0563C1">www.lsk-iplaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">Please note:</span></b><span
            style="color:black">   This message is intended for the
            individual or entity named above and may constitute a
            privileged and confidential communication.  If you are not
            the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use, or
            disclose this message.  Please notify the sender by replying
            to this message, and then delete the message from your
            system.  Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
          <div>
            <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
                  </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Patentpractice
                  <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
                  on behalf of Carl Oppedahl via Patentpractice <<a
                    href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
                  <b>Date: </b>Monday, February 5, 2024 at 10:57 PM<br>
                  <b>To: </b>For patent practitioners. This is not for
                  laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a
                    href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
                  <b>Cc: </b>Carl Oppedahl <<a
                    href="mailto:carl@oppedahl.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">carl@oppedahl.com</a>><br>
                  <b>Subject: </b>[Patentpractice] Assignment Center -
                  can you save progress part way through? No<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <p>Nope, it turns out to be impossible to save the
              submission package part way through.  See
              <a
href="https://blog.oppedahl.com/some-of-the-defects-in-the-new-assignment-center/"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://blog.oppedahl.com/some-of-the-defects-in-the-new-assignment-center/</a>
              .<o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On
                  1/29/2024 4:15 PM, Carl Oppedahl via Patentpractice
                  wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <p>Yes, it looks like that.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p>It looks like <b><i>if the exact same person</i></b>
                wants to save progress and come back, they maybe can do
                that.  There is one extremely blurry slide toward the
                beginning of the slide deck that gives the impression
                that you can do that.  But it looks like it is
                impossible to pass a partially completed filing project
                over to a colleague for a "second pair of eyes".  Or to
                pass it to a colleague for e-signature.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On
                    1/29/2024 4:05 PM, James Katz via Patentpractice
                    wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">It also seems that they removed
                    any ability to “save progress” or otherwise save a
                    submission for review before it is submitted. 
                    <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">So there goes our workflow where
                    our assistants upload an assignment and save it
                    before submission, then forward the EPAS link to the
                    attorney for review before the assistant then
                    submits.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Jim<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">James
                        L. Katz</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">patent
                      attorney<br>
                      312.854.8372 ▪ direct<br>
                      312.291.0864 ▪ fax<br>
                      <a href="mailto:jkatz@lsk-iplaw.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                          style="color:#0563C1">jkatz@lsk-iplaw.com</span></a><br>
                      <br>
                      <b>LEMPIA SUMMERFIELD KATZ LLC</b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">20
                      south clark
                      street, suite 600 ▪ chicago, illinois 60603  ▪ <a
                        href="http://www.lsk-iplaw.com/"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                          style="color:#0563C1">www.lsk-iplaw.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">Please
                        note:</span></b><span style="color:black">   This
                      message is intended for the individual or entity
                      named above and may constitute a privileged and
                      confidential communication.  If you are not the
                      intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use,
                      or disclose this message.  Please notify the
                      sender by replying to this message, and then
                      delete the message from your system.  Thank you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
                    <div>
                      <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                          style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">From:
                            </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">Patentpractice
                            <a
href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
                            on behalf of Carl Oppedahl via
                            Patentpractice
                            <a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
                            <b>Date: </b>Monday, January 29, 2024 at
                            4:57 PM<br>
                            <b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>
                            <a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
                            <b>Cc: </b>Carl Oppedahl <a
                              href="mailto:carl@oppedahl.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><carl@oppedahl.com></a><br>
                            <b>Subject: </b>[Patentpractice] some
                            initial reactions to the USPTO's training
                            slides for son-of-EPAS</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <p><b><i>Cumbersome login now required.  </i></b>It
                        used to be that anybody could submit an
                        assignment for recordation.  Now you have to do
                        a cumbersome login with two-factor
                        authentication.  I suspect this means the person
                        doing the recordation session will have
                        previously been forced to do a Real ID or other
                        invasive prove-who-you-are procedure.<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p><b><i>Stupid terminology.</i></b>  The designer
                        of son-of-EPAS calls the recordation session
                        "filing an application".  This is nuts. 
                        <o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p><b><i>No functional enhancements for the paying
                            customer.</i></b>  After all this big talk
                        about how wonderful this son-of-EPAS system is
                        going to be, I clicked around a bit to try to
                        see what functional enhancements it is going to
                        provide.  For example I figured the least they
                        would do is make it so that you can check the
                        status of a recordation submission.  Nope.  No
                        enhancements of any kind so far as I can see.<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p><b><i>Blocks you from including an application
                            number that they can't find in their
                            system. 
                          </i></b>It looks like if your patent
                        application is not in Patentcenter, you will be
                        blocked from including it in your recordation
                        submission.  I suspect this means it will be
                        impossible to record against a PCT application
                        filed in an Office that is not the RO/US.<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
              </blockquote>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>