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<p>Thank you. Yes, at least as recently as last December, the USPTO
DOCX koolaid presenters said exactly this. I have a recording of
one of the USPTO DOCX koolaid presenters saying exactly this. You
could hand in a preliminary amendment on the same day as the
filing of the DOCX application, and it would not trigger the $400
penalty.</p>
<p>But now the reports that we are all seeing from some of our
colleagues are that the Application Branch is imposing the $400
penalty for such a filing path.</p>
<p>Back when I was hearing this from the USPTO koolaid presenters, I
worried that the USPTO would flip-flop on this. As of last
December, the USPTO people had apparently not figured out that
this path could include a preliminary amendment along the lines of
"cancel the DOCX content of the application we filed an hour ago,
and replace it with the following PDF file". Which would then
deprive the USPTO of the ability to punish those who want to use a
trusted PDF as their patent application.</p>
<p>Anyway yes it looks like now in February, the USPTO people have
figured out that they absolutely must impose the $400 penalty for
this filing path so as to punish anyone who wants to have a
trusted PDF be the authoritative document by means of this path.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/28/2024 3:50 PM, Randy A.
Noranbrock via Patentpractice wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:84884E89-BD45-424B-A84D-BD8F15720588@ipfirm.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Although, if
you jump to the 40:28 mark of this helpful PTO video, you
can hear the PTO answer to this very question:
<a
href="https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/uspto-videos/how-file-your-patent-application-documents-docx"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/uspto-videos/how-file-your-patent-application-documents-docx</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Roboto">“Question
4.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Roboto">Will there
be a surcharge for preliminary amendments submitted in PDF
format?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Roboto">No.
Preliminary amendments can be filed in PDF format and can be
included with the initial filing.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-R<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">--</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#941100">Randy
A. Noranbrock</span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> - </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><a
href="mailto:randy@ipfirm.com"
title="mailto:randy@ipfirm.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">randy@ipfirm.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> —
Partner @ Hauptman Ham, LLP</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><a
href="http://www.ipfirm.com/"
title="http://www.ipfirm.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:purple">http://www.ipfirm.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> -
(703) 535-7070 (direct) - (703) 518-5499 (fax)</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0433FF">Randy
A. Noranbrock is admitted in VA and registered to practice
before the US Patent & Trademark Office</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Patentpractice
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> on
behalf of Dan Feigelson via Patentpractice
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"For patent practitioners. This is not
for laypersons to seek legal advice."
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, February 28, 2024 at 5:33 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"For patent practitioners. This is not for
laypersons to seek legal advice."
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Dan Feigelson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:djf@iliplaw.com"><djf@iliplaw.com></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Patentpractice] DOCX penalty fee
question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p><strong><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:red">[EXTERNAL
SENDER]</span></strong><span style="color:red"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think the issue with the
preliminary amendment was that is was filed on the same
day as the application, and therefore was considered
part of the original filing. As far as I know,
amendments filed after the day of filing do not trigger
the penalty.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 12:17<span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>AM
Goldberg, Judi via Patentpractice <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black">Does the DOCX
requirement/$400 penalty apply to
<u>any</u> spec amendments, such as filing a
replacement spec? I saw the email discussions
here that the penalty fee was assessed for a
preliminary amendment, so I’m wondering if we
will also get hit with the penalty if we have to
file a substitute spec? Does it make a
difference if the amendments are in a national
phase application rather than a utility
application, like it is for the initial filing
(Or will they also assess the penalty fee if we
file a preliminary amendment?
<span class="m-3568678652912358489spelle">Hmmmm</span>).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black">PS – I took several of the
USPTO’s DOCX “training” sessions, and they never
mentioned having to pay the penalty for anything
other than the originally filed spec. Why am I
not surprised. </span><span
style="font-family:Wingdings;color:black">L</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black">Thanks in advance,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black">Judi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
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