<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>What he said.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/28/2024 6:13 PM, Richard Schafer
via Patentpractice wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:SA1PR05MB79833032BD8E9D120CA912EE8E5F2@SA1PR05MB7983.namprd05.prod.outlook.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta name="Generator"
content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style>@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Aptos;}@font-face
{font-family:Garamond;
panose-1:2 2 4 4 3 3 1 1 8 3;}@font-face
{font-family:"Goudy Old Style";
panose-1:2 2 5 2 5 3 5 2 3 3;}@font-face
{font-family:Roboto;
panose-1:2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}span.m5635609185978013602m-3568678652912358489spelle
{mso-style-name:m_5635609185978013602m-3568678652912358489spelle;}span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;
color:#1F497D;}.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:11.0pt;}div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D">I’m
pretty sure that the PTO’s position is that nothing said in
one of the training videos can be relied upon. Such as last
year when the trainer in one of the PTO’s “how to use DOCX”
sessions said there would be a delay in implementing the
surcharge, but PTO bigwigs like Seidel refused to confirm
that. I think their view is nothing said in one of those
training sessions is an official statement of the PTO.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Best
regards,<br>
<b>Richard A. Schafer | Schafer IP Law</b></span><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><br>
</span><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">P.O.
Box 230081 | Houston, TX 77223<br>
M: 832.283.6564 | </span><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D"><a
href="mailto:richard@schafer-ip.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">richard@schafer-ip.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Patentpractice
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Judith S via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 28, 2024 5:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for
laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Judith S <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:judith.a.s@gmail.com"><judith.a.s@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] DOCX penalty fee
question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I missed that! Whoever got penalized,
want to petition to reverse that penalty, based on this
video?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Judith<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 2:50<span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>PM
Randy A. Noranbrock via Patentpractice <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Although, if you jump to
the 40:28 mark of this helpful PTO video, you can
hear the PTO answer to this very question:
<a
href="https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/uspto-videos/how-file-your-patent-application-documents-docx"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/uspto-videos/how-file-your-patent-application-documents-docx</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:Roboto">“Question 4.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:Roboto">Will there be a
surcharge for preliminary amendments submitted in
PDF format?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:Roboto">No. Preliminary
amendments can be filed in PDF format and can be
included with the initial filing.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-R</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#941100">Randy
A. Noranbrock</span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> - </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><a
href="mailto:randy@ipfirm.com"
target="_blank"
title="mailto:randy@ipfirm.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">randy@ipfirm.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> —
Partner @ Hauptman Ham, LLP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><a
href="http://www.ipfirm.com/"
target="_blank"
title="http://www.ipfirm.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:purple">http://www.ipfirm.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> -
(703) 535-7070 (direct) - (703) 518-5499
(fax)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0433FF">Randy
A. Noranbrock is admitted in VA and registered to
practice before the US Patent & Trademark
Office</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Patentpractice
<<a
href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
on behalf of Dan Feigelson via Patentpractice
<<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"For patent practitioners.
This is not for laypersons to seek legal
advice." <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, February 28, 2024 at
5:33 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"For patent practitioners. This is
not for laypersons to seek legal advice." <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Dan Feigelson <<a
href="mailto:djf@iliplaw.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">djf@iliplaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Patentpractice] DOCX
penalty fee question</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p><strong><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:red">[EXTERNAL
SENDER]</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I think the
issue with the preliminary amendment was that
is was filed on the same day as the
application, and therefore was considered part
of the original filing. As far as I know,
amendments filed after the day of filing do
not trigger the penalty.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Thu, Feb
29, 2024 at 12:17<span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>AM Goldberg,
Judi via Patentpractice <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black">Does the DOCX
requirement/$400 penalty apply to
<u>any</u> spec amendments, such as
filing a replacement spec? I saw the
email discussions here that the
penalty fee was assessed for a
preliminary amendment, so I’m
wondering if we will also get hit with
the penalty if we have to file a
substitute spec? Does it make a
difference if the amendments are in a
national phase application rather than
a utility application, like it is for
the initial filing (Or will they also
assess the penalty fee if we file a
preliminary amendment?
<span
class="m5635609185978013602m-3568678652912358489spelle">Hmmmm</span>).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black">PS – I took
several of the USPTO’s DOCX “training”
sessions, and they never mentioned
having to pay the penalty for anything
other than the originally filed spec.
Why am I not surprised. </span><span
style="font-family:Wingdings;color:black">L</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black">Thanks in advance,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black">Judi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
<br>
Patentpractice mailing list<br>
<a
href="mailto:Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcfagjf.r.bh.d.sendibt3.com_tr_cl_OjTkX16SzuKAxeSVN2o99LbrWA3i4ND-2DOS4AOj-2DKfxczr1Aif-5FCxQDp94ttf1U26LkX04WNeP4I0aYcbVsLg9PDBhedtUBLCPAE0xkgsloShsdnM3Hik-2D2L3tl6q14T-2DBVYHR9ut-2DyLsfvw9PUTAI5MyYP8gu4GdP8yuflHoZWwbfkHk17xZcmaRwVl8E-5FfSrrx0CXTT41unXFoNw7FvixRhkSESJNzyocsNc7vjrR9bwWU5pE5FOvrllipwGfNGZRHQcE5J2vpRPX1187A8-2DApxPq5eECwbBJp6B-5FNashbYNkjYyKLg33bw1tN1fR-5FylYz9NTRLIyRoIeXxpzKZ5G76e90ygqa4b9Wc&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=BqR0VQUVXErbEwFKisVgSVuzZx0HbJxwEUTNLj3Tx2Q&m=2z8eNcowfeElC_cdNoKIcEZd91Z6ByuSruYP8K6w_PJphORVEjlyZ5ciQ0gPDDKK&s=Fm7sT5jeXGawV46pWsgP6dsTjgVqFrhUhaUEJh2vpwI&e="
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div
style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt">
<p style="background:#FFD300"><strong><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:navy">NOTICE</span></strong><span
style="color:navy"> This email message
originated from outside of your organization.
Please use caution when responding, opening
attachments, and clicking links.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
Patentpractice mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>