<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>What he said.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/28/2024 6:13 PM, Richard Schafer
      via Patentpractice wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:SA1PR05MB79833032BD8E9D120CA912EE8E5F2@SA1PR05MB7983.namprd05.prod.outlook.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <meta name="Generator"
        content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
      <style>@font-face
        {font-family:Wingdings;
        panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}@font-face
        {font-family:"Cambria Math";
        panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
        {font-family:Calibri;
        panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face
        {font-family:Aptos;}@font-face
        {font-family:Garamond;
        panose-1:2 2 4 4 3 3 1 1 8 3;}@font-face
        {font-family:"Goudy Old Style";
        panose-1:2 2 5 2 5 3 5 2 3 3;}@font-face
        {font-family:Roboto;
        panose-1:2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
        {margin:0in;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        color:blue;
        text-decoration:underline;}span.m5635609185978013602m-3568678652912358489spelle
        {mso-style-name:m_5635609185978013602m-3568678652912358489spelle;}span.EmailStyle21
        {mso-style-type:personal-reply;
        font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;
        color:#1F497D;}.MsoChpDefault
        {mso-style-type:export-only;
        font-size:11.0pt;}div.WordSection1
        {page:WordSection1;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D">I’m
            pretty sure that the PTO’s position is that nothing said in
            one of the training videos can be relied upon. Such as last
            year when the trainer in one of the PTO’s “how to use DOCX”
            sessions said there would be a delay in implementing the
            surcharge, but PTO bigwigs like Seidel refused to confirm
            that. I think their view is nothing said in one of those
            training sessions is an official statement of the PTO.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Best
            regards,<br>
            <b>Richard A. Schafer | Schafer IP Law</b></span><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><br>
          </span><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">P.O.
            Box 230081 | Houston, TX 77223<br>
            M: 832.283.6564 | </span><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D"><a
              href="mailto:richard@schafer-ip.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">richard@schafer-ip.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Goudy Old Style",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
              Patentpractice
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Judith S via Patentpractice<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 28, 2024 5:05 PM<br>
              <b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for
              laypersons to seek legal advice.
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
              <b>Cc:</b> Judith S <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:judith.a.s@gmail.com"><judith.a.s@gmail.com></a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] DOCX penalty fee
              question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">I missed that!  Whoever got penalized,
              want to petition to reverse that penalty, based on this
              video?<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Judith<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 2:50<span
                style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>PM
              Randy A. Noranbrock via Patentpractice <<a
                href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt">Although, if you jump to
                      the 40:28 mark of this helpful PTO video, you can
                      hear the PTO answer to this very question:
                      <a
href="https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/uspto-videos/how-file-your-patent-application-documents-docx"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/uspto-videos/how-file-your-patent-application-documents-docx</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-family:Roboto">“Question 4.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-family:Roboto">Will there be a
                      surcharge for preliminary amendments submitted in
                      PDF format?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-family:Roboto">No. Preliminary
                      amendments can be filed in PDF format and can be
                      included with the initial filing.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt">-R</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#941100">Randy
                            A. Noranbrock</span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> - </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><a
                              href="mailto:randy@ipfirm.com"
                              target="_blank"
                              title="mailto:randy@ipfirm.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">randy@ipfirm.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> —
                            Partner @ Hauptman Ham, LLP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><a
                              href="http://www.ipfirm.com/"
                              target="_blank"
                              title="http://www.ipfirm.com/"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                style="font-size:10.5pt;color:purple">http://www.ipfirm.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> -
                            (703) 535-7070 (direct) - (703) 518-5499
                            (fax)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0433FF">Randy
                      A. Noranbrock is admitted in VA and registered to
                      practice before the US Patent & Trademark
                      Office</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:
                        </span></b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Patentpractice
                        <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
                        on behalf of Dan Feigelson via Patentpractice
                        <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
                        <b>Reply-To: </b>"For patent practitioners.
                        This is not for laypersons to seek legal
                        advice." <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
                        <b>Date: </b>Wednesday, February 28, 2024 at
                        5:33 PM<br>
                        <b>To: </b>"For patent practitioners. This is
                        not for laypersons to seek legal advice." <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
                        <b>Cc: </b>Dan Feigelson <<a
                          href="mailto:djf@iliplaw.com" target="_blank"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">djf@iliplaw.com</a>><br>
                        <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Patentpractice] DOCX
                        penalty fee question</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <p><strong><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:red">[EXTERNAL
                        SENDER]</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I think the
                          issue with the preliminary amendment was that
                          is was filed on the same day as the
                          application, and therefore was considered part
                          of the original filing. As far as I know,
                          amendments filed after the day of filing do
                          not trigger the penalty.<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dan<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Thu, Feb
                          29, 2024 at 12:17<span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>AM Goldberg,
                          Judi via Patentpractice <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
                          wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                                  style="color:black">Does the DOCX
                                  requirement/$400 penalty apply to
                                  <u>any</u> spec amendments, such as
                                  filing a replacement spec?  I saw the
                                  email discussions here that the
                                  penalty fee was assessed for a
                                  preliminary amendment, so I’m
                                  wondering if we will also get hit with
                                  the penalty if we have to file a
                                  substitute spec?  Does it make a
                                  difference if the amendments are in a
                                  national phase application rather than
                                  a utility application, like it is for
                                  the initial filing (Or will they also
                                  assess the penalty fee if we file a
                                  preliminary amendment? 
                                  <span
class="m5635609185978013602m-3568678652912358489spelle">Hmmmm</span>).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                                  style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                                  style="color:black">PS – I took
                                  several of the USPTO’s DOCX “training”
                                  sessions, and they never mentioned
                                  having to pay the penalty for anything
                                  other than the originally filed spec. 
                                  Why am I not surprised. </span><span
style="font-family:Wingdings;color:black">L</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                                  style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                                  style="color:black">Thanks in advance,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                                  style="color:black">Judi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
                            <br>
                            Patentpractice mailing list<br>
                            <a
href="mailto:Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
                            <a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcfagjf.r.bh.d.sendibt3.com_tr_cl_OjTkX16SzuKAxeSVN2o99LbrWA3i4ND-2DOS4AOj-2DKfxczr1Aif-5FCxQDp94ttf1U26LkX04WNeP4I0aYcbVsLg9PDBhedtUBLCPAE0xkgsloShsdnM3Hik-2D2L3tl6q14T-2DBVYHR9ut-2DyLsfvw9PUTAI5MyYP8gu4GdP8yuflHoZWwbfkHk17xZcmaRwVl8E-5FfSrrx0CXTT41unXFoNw7FvixRhkSESJNzyocsNc7vjrR9bwWU5pE5FOvrllipwGfNGZRHQcE5J2vpRPX1187A8-2DApxPq5eECwbBJp6B-5FNashbYNkjYyKLg33bw1tN1fR-5FylYz9NTRLIyRoIeXxpzKZ5G76e90ygqa4b9Wc&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=BqR0VQUVXErbEwFKisVgSVuzZx0HbJxwEUTNLj3Tx2Q&m=2z8eNcowfeElC_cdNoKIcEZd91Z6ByuSruYP8K6w_PJphORVEjlyZ5ciQ0gPDDKK&s=Fm7sT5jeXGawV46pWsgP6dsTjgVqFrhUhaUEJh2vpwI&e="
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <div
style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt">
                      <p style="background:#FFD300"><strong><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:navy">NOTICE</span></strong><span
                          style="color:navy"> This email message
                          originated from outside of your organization.
                          Please use caution when responding, opening
                          attachments, and clicking links.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
                Patentpractice mailing list<br>
                <a href="mailto:Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
                <a
href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>