<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#0000ff" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<font face="Times New Roman">Review your emails and the responses
from Scott and Bruce I note that you stated "</font><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">US
application A is duly filed and matures to patent" and you stated
"</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">US
application B is duly filed and remains pending."<br>
I assume that Scott and Bruce assumed what you meant was that PCT
application A entered the US national stage and issued into a US
patent, and that PCT application B entered the US national stage
and remains pending.<br>
However, your stated facts do not say that.<br>
</span><font face="Times New Roman"> <br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-signature">
<p>Best regards, Rick Neifeld, Ph.D., Patent Attorney<br>
Neifeld IP Law PLLC<br>
9112 Shearman Street, Fairfax VA 22032-1479, United States<br>
Office: 1-7034150012<br>
Mobile: 1-7034470727<br>
Fax: 1-5712810045<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:rneifeld@neifeld.com"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rneifeld@neifeld.com</a><br>
and <a href="mailto:richardneifeld@gmail.com"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">richardneifeld@gmail.com</a><br>
Web: <a href="https://neifeld.com/"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://neifeld.com/</a><br>
This is a confidential communication of counsel. If you are not
the intended recipient, delete this email and notify the sender
that you did so.</p>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/29/2024 2:21 PM, Timothy Snowden
via Patentpractice wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DM8PR16MB4358A0ABD77B82C1367E9A4BB35F2@DM8PR16MB4358.namprd16.prod.outlook.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;">P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}</style>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I have a hypothetical that seems to be coming out one way, but
I'm not trusting the outcome based on my reading of the law (as
well as commentary). More specifically, I want to run my thought
process by the group and see if I'm not thinking of an
additional relevant code that may change the outcome.</div>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hypothetical Fact Pattern:</div>
<ol
data-editing-info="{"orderedStyleType":3,"unorderedStyleType":1}"
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"
data-listchain="__List_Chain_341" start="1">
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); list-style-type: "1) ";">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Provisional
Application A is filed 1/1/2017 containing subject matter
A</span></div>
</li>
<ol
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; list-style-type: lower-alpha;"
start="1">
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">PCT
A is filed 12/31/2017</span></div>
</li>
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">US
application A is duly filed and matures to patent</span></div>
</li>
<ol
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; list-style-type: lower-roman;"
start="1">
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">claims
are amended to further limit to variation A1 that
excludes variation A2</span></div>
</li>
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">no
continuation pending, broadening reissue date is past</span></div>
</li>
</ol>
</ol>
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); list-style-type: "2) ";">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Provisional
Application B is filed 1/1/2018 (1 day after PCT A is
filed, and within 1 year of Provisional A) describing
subject matter A, D, and E but ALSO <b><i>incorporating
PCT A by reference</i></b></span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>(nothing
has been published from family A before Provisional B is
filed)</b></span></div>
</li>
<ol
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; list-style-type: lower-alpha;"
start="1">
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">PCT
B is duly filed</span></div>
</li>
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">US
application B is duly filed
<i>and is still pending </i>– claiming subject matter B
(close relationship and roughly same physical structure
to subject matter A, but different application /
operation / optimization) – for this scenario, we don't
care what happens to subject matter B.</span></div>
</li>
</ol>
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); list-style-type: "3) ";">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">CONTINUATION
US Application B1 is filed (properly claiming priority to
have an effective filing date of 1/1/2018)
<i>making use of the incorporation by reference to draw
into the specification the description of features B
& C
</i>from PCT A --- and CLAIM A, B, and C – specifically
claiming variation C2.</span></div>
</li>
<ol
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; list-style-type: lower-alpha;"
start="1">
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">There
is NO priority claim to the "A" family.</span></div>
</li>
</ol>
</ol>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
NOTE: Assume all applications have at least 1 common inventor,
and all applications are owned by the same entity. </div>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Question:</div>
<ul
data-editing-info="{"orderedStyleType":1,"unorderedStyleType":1}"
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; list-style-type: disc;">
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Can
any of the "A" family applications be used as prior art
against the "B1" continuation application to reject the
claim to subject matter variation A2? (other than
double-patenting – which is fine)</span></div>
</li>
</ul>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
My current thinking:</div>
<ul
data-editing-info="{"orderedStyleType":1,"unorderedStyleType":1}"
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; list-style-type: disc;">
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Family
A is not prior art to Continuation B1 under 35 USC
102(a)(1) because it was not<i> published</i> prior to
filing</span></div>
</li>
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Family
A
<i>is </i>prior art to Continuation B1 under 35 USC
102(a)(2) (because of 35 USC 102(d)) because it
<i>has</i> been published by now (35 USC 122b) AND has an
effective filing date (1/1/2017) prior to that of
Continuation B1 (1/1/2018).</span></div>
</li>
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Family
A falls under the EXCEPTION in 35 USC 102(b)(2) because
the applications are commonly owned by 1/1/2018.</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><i>(NOTE:
I found one commentator that indicated there had to be
different inventors for this exception, but I can't find
that supported in the text?)</i></span></div>
</li>
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I
don't think the Paris Convention or PCT modifies this
finding because:</span></div>
</li>
<ul
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; list-style-type: circle;">
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">the
priority claims were all proper for the various national
stage applications</span></div>
</li>
<li
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">this
is a 'regular' US Continuation now under US law,
properly claiming priority through the "US application
in the PCT B bundle" to the Provisional B – therefore,
35 USC 102(b)(2) (taking into account 35 USC 102(d),
which contemplates PCT priority) excludes the prior
application as prior art.</span></div>
</li>
</ul>
</ul>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Where are the holes in this line of thought?</div>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof"
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Thanks!</div>
<div id="Signature">
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>