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<p>It's only sufficient if it is free from real or imagined defect.</p>
<p>Keep in mind the ADS is flattened to a TIF image, and it gets
blurred. I have a case where a non-defective DAS code became
defective when the USPTO clerk misread a B as an 8. This was
after the 4-and-16 date. And so the DAS retrieval failed, and
from the USPTO's point of view it was my fault for providing a
defective DAS code. I had to pay the $400 petition fee to get
forgiveness for failing to provide the electronic certified copy
within the 4-and-16 time limit.</p>
<p>If I had followed Suzannah's example, I would have filed an
interim copy before the end of the 4-and-16 period, and this would
have saved me $400. <br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/16/2024 8:32 AM, Randall Svihla
via Patentpractice wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">See
37 CFR 1.55(i), which says that the DAS code is
sufficient.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Best
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Randall
S. Svihla<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">NSIP
Law<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Washington,
D.C.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">
Patentpractice
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Orvis
via Patentpractice<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, May 16, 2024 10:27 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> For
patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek
legal advice. <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Orvis
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:orvispc@gmail.com"><orvispc@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Patentpractice] venting - failure to download
priority document from DAS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">The
real kicker is the CFR requires an applicant to provide
the certified priority document by 4/16 months. The CFR
does not say providing a DAS code by then is
sufficient. I would welcome anyone who has comments on
the PTO interpreting the providing of a DAS code by then
being sufficient.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">May
16, 2024 10:15:13 AM Carl Oppedahl via Patentpractice
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a>:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in">
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Yes. It's like there is some
weird game of chicken going on. Suppose WIPO had a
price for using DAS, like USPTO having to pay ten
dollars to retrieve a PD from DAS. Then in a weird
sick way we could understand the USPTO deciding to
slow-walk the retrieval until after some of the events
in which the filer might have let the filing go
abandoned. You know, like if on average one out of
ten US filings go abandoned before the filing receipt,
then they save ten dollars for that one case.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Except, guess what, WIPO does
not charge any money for retrievals. So that
explanation for the foot-dragging does not work.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">What's really going on, I
believe, is that even though it would absolutely be
the right thing to do, the USPTO software developers
have not done the bit of coding for this retrieval to
be automated. This is coding that a handful of
competent coders (drawn from this listserv, for
example) could do on a weekend, if given pizza and
soft drinks, and they would have Saturday afternoon
and all of Sunday left over. But no, the USPTO has
not done it. So this task remains (even after more
than a decade of DAS existing) a purely manual task
carried out by means of fingers moving on keyboards.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">And so the reason for the
foot-dragging is, the USPTO wanting to save the
internal labor cost of the fingers on keyboards until
after some of the events in which the filer might have
let the filing go abandoned. You know, like if on
average one out of ten US filings go abandoned before
the filing receipt, then they save the
fingers-on-keyboards internal cost for that one case.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Oh and never mind that if
only the USPTO were to incur that one-time cost for
coding and automating the retrieval, this would save
the recurring cost of the fingers on keyboards.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">And it would serve the paying
customers better.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">The USPTO's failure in this
area seemingly knows no bounds, because it's not just
the foot-dragging result.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Say you go to ePCT to enter
in an application number and DAS access code, for the
IB to retrieve some PD.
<b><i><span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">In
real time</span></i></b> the ePCT system
cross-checks the entered application number and DAS
code against DAS. If the user had gotten a digit
wrong, the user is told this
<b><i><span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">in
real time.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">But in the USPTO systems, the
USPTO goes out of its way to avoid doing any
validation or cross-checking of the PD application
number or DAS access code. USPTO could do this when
you load your ADS into Patent Center. If USPTO were
to do this (which costs no money to do in a recurring
way, and in fact saves the USPTO money later by
averting delays and mistakes and do-overs), this would
be applicant-friendly. But USPTO does not do it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">On
5/16/2024 6:22 AM, Dan Feigelson via Patentpractice
wrote:
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in;mso-no-proof:yes"><img
id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part1.19wYL33a.TjZYFELF@oppedahl.com"
alt="Image removed by sender." class="" width="1"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Filed
an application that claims priority only from a
non-US application. Foreign priority app is in
DAS (I checked with WIPO). Provided the USPTO
with the foreign application no. and the DAS
retrieval code on an ADS at the time of filing.
Got the filing receipt, and it acknowledges the
foreign priority claim and that the DAS code was
provided, and says that the USPTO "will attempt
to electronically retrieve" the priority doc.
But of course, the p.d. isn't yet in the
electronic file.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">That
the PTO waits to retrieve the p.d. is not news,
Carl and others have written about it. But it
still bugs me: how hard would it be for the PTO
to retrieve the document NOW instead of waiting?
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Dan
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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