<div dir="ltr">No positive experience with 3rd party submissions, but I'd be tempted in the explanation to state what the prior art discloses and that it predates the earliest effective filing date for the claimed X+Y combination, with a note that the combination is first disclosed in the non-provisional. If X alone is not claimed, then there's no reason to mention the provisional at all. If X is claimed, then the remarks on the prior art can address the claim to X separately from the claim to X+Y.<div><br></div><div><br></div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.1px">-Jeff </span><div><br style="font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.1px"><span style="font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.1px">Jeffrey E. Semprebon</span><br style="font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.1px"><span style="font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.1px">Semprebon Patent Services</span><br style="font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.1px"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.semprebonps.com/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.1px" target="_blank">www.semprebonps.com</a><br style="font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.1px"><span style="font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.1px">72 Myrtle Street</span><br style="font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.1px"><span style="font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.1px">Claremont, New Hampshire 03743</span><br></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 7:06\u202fAM Dan Feigelson via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><img width="1" height="1" src="https://gcfagjf.r.af.d.sendibt2.com/tr/op/uiRXuQmoQsKitiBz4CKiFytKvrn5JsMhJDmvYk_hflc9bAoLt_NGKo0PhQlzFnTTaHmLVH_eP_1G1VWavgjPqhrzhfMQ0MNHQUrToTtRxa8_rHJfcPOglVDTdPAvryQwRoeWHhTs-X0u8pJB_bWVRCZYJzXGTOWIjl-7-r-iNQ0s7QDMxwr05D3t2eosxvQ9hoa8TStQxyUgsaTFgN_jC4TodAT9rNhrtvP4"><div dir="ltr"><div>Client has what it believes to be a US patent that anticipates several claims of a competitor's US patent. The patent to be cited was only published after the filing of the competitor patent, the patent to be cited has an earliest date (provisional application filing date) that precedes the earliest date for the competitor patent, and thus is citable under 102 and 103.</div><div><br></div><div>A submission under 35 USC 301/37 CFR 1.501 must contain a statement about the relevance of the cited publication(s) to at least one claim of the patent. No problem there, in this case.</div><div><br></div><div>What I'm wondering about is the following: the competitor patent claims the benefit of a provisional that discloses X, but the patent also discloses X+Y, which means that the competitor patent is only entitled to the actual non-prov filing date for any claims on X+Y.</div><div><br></div><div>We think the anticipatory patent already shows X+Y from its earliest date, viz. from before the filing of the competitor provisional. Thus, to make our case, it's not necessary to show that the competitor patent is only entitled to the later filing date for X+Y. I think it would nevertheless be worthwhile to point this out in the 35 USC 301/37 CFR 1.501 submission, if only to have that statement in the record in order to weaken the competitor's position.</div><div><br></div><div>What I'm wondering is, since showing that X+Y isn't necessary in order to get the anticipatory patent admitted as prior art and to make the showing of anticipation, might the PTO bounce our submission for including extraneous material? As I read the statute and rule, I don't think we're precluded form including the extra information, but if anyone knows for sure the PTO will frown on this, I'd like to know beforehand.</div><div><br></div><div>(And FWIW, the client is still weighing whether or not to pony up the ex parte reexamination fee. It does not have the funds for an IPR.)</div><div><br></div><div>Relevant parts of 35 USC 301:</div><div><br></div><div>
<ul style="margin:0px 0px 7px;padding:0px 0px 0px 3px;border:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-variant-alternates:inherit;font-weight:400;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:11.2px;line-height:1.3em;font-family:Tahoma,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-kerning:inherit;font-feature-settings:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;list-style-type:none;color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><li id="m_-4053944324527723108gmail-al_d1d85b_2c1ad_28a" style="margin:0px 0px 5px;padding:0px 0px 0px 17px;list-style:none;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background:no-repeat">(a) IN GENERAL.\u2014Any person at any time may cite to the Office in writing\u2014<ul style="margin:5px 0px 7px;padding:0px 0px 0px 3px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:1.3em;font-family:inherit;font-kerning:inherit;font-feature-settings:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;list-style-type:none"><li id="m_-4053944324527723108gmail-al_d1d85b_2c1ad_29d" style="margin:0px 0px 5px;padding:0px 0px 0px 17px;list-style:none;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background:no-repeat">(1) prior art consisting of patents or printed publications which that person believes to have a bearing on the patentability of any claim of a particular patent; * * * <br></li></ul></li><li id="m_-4053944324527723108gmail-al_d1d85b_2c1b2_179" style="margin:0px 0px 5px;padding:0px 0px 0px 17px;list-style:none;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background:no-repeat">(b) OFFICIAL FILE.\u2014If the person citing prior art or written statements pursuant to subsection (a) explains in writing the pertinence and manner of applying the prior art or written statements to at least 1 claim of the patent, the citation of the prior art or written statements and the explanation thereof shall become a part of the official file of the patent.</li></ul>
</div><div><br></div><div>Relevant parts of 37 CFR 1.501:</div><div><br></div><div>
<ul style="margin:0px 0px 7px;padding:0px 0px 0px 3px;border:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-variant-alternates:inherit;font-weight:400;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:11.2px;line-height:1.3em;font-family:Tahoma,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-kerning:inherit;font-feature-settings:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;list-style-type:none;color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><li id="m_-4053944324527723108gmail-d0e329885" style="margin:0px 0px 5px;padding:0px 0px 0px 17px;list-style:none;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background:no-repeat">(a)<span> </span><i>Information content of submission:</i><span> </span>At any time during the period of enforceability of a patent, any person may file a written submission with the Office under this section, which is directed to the following information:<ul style="margin:5px 0px 7px;padding:0px 0px 0px 3px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:1.3em;font-family:inherit;font-kerning:inherit;font-feature-settings:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;list-style-type:none"><li id="m_-4053944324527723108gmail-ar_d1d8ad_2a655_14d" style="margin:0px 0px 5px;padding:0px 0px 0px 17px;list-style:none;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background:no-repeat">(1) Prior art consisting of patents or printed publications which the person making the submission believes to have a bearing on the patentability of any claim of the patent; * * *<br></li></ul></li><li id="m_-4053944324527723108gmail-d0e329895" style="margin:0px 0px 5px;padding:0px 0px 0px 17px;list-style:none;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background:no-repeat">(b)<span> </span><i>Explanation:</i><span> </span>A submission pursuant to paragraph (a) of this section:<ul style="margin:5px 0px 7px;padding:0px 0px 0px 3px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:1.3em;font-family:inherit;font-kerning:inherit;font-feature-settings:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;list-style-type:none"><li id="m_-4053944324527723108gmail-ar_d1d8ad_2a76f_37d" style="margin:0px 0px 5px;padding:0px 0px 0px 17px;list-style:none;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background:no-repeat">(1) Must include an explanation in writing of the pertinence and manner of applying any prior art submitted under paragraph (a)(1) of this section and any written statement and accompanying information submitted under paragraph (a)(2) of this section to at least one claim of the patent, in order for the submission to become a part of the official file of the patent * * *<br></li></ul></li></ul>
</div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Dan</div></div></div></span></div></div></div></div></div>
-- <br>
Patentpractice mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
</blockquote></div>