<img width="1" height="1" src='https://gcfagjf.r.af.d.sendibt2.com/tr/op/ELVl8YlVAeV3K3rfQLhpmecc1jxLnJL39YSNLcG8dcmZ551BxRatKLeoNOwACM7lovBBbpvgW0OW0pMgadZ6HcXKxyKYMev8MMOA6I2MVEaUfe2wb6t3LE60HAD0kOcHjchO0oYzwJ6qbynTT_iTwFKax4UJZjzuPw-pVrP05iXlo5IEjPLskGysoS8czbHG8oxXTIZ4nTVhqcgnpwrbEZp82-8mun4Qk8Zx' /><div dir="ltr"><div>I'm afraid I don't follow the logic there. How does filing a copy of the published PCT help you avoid a petition to revive?</div><div><br></div><div>There are two points for identifying the PCT application by application number: on the ADS, and in the screen in EFS where the PTO asks for the PCT application number. For some reason the PTO gives deference to what's entered in EFS, even though (a) the ADS contains additional identifying information, like the names of the inventors, the name of the assignee/applicant (usually), and the priority applications, making it easy to cross-check if the application number is correct, and (b) the Regs say that the ADS is supposed to control. So if you make a mistake entering the PCT number in EFS, but you've got it right in the ADS, you have what to point to about the correct number - and you have the law behind you, even though the PTO doesn't care about the law.</div><div><br></div><div>But whether you submit a copy of the published PCT, or identify the PCT number in an ADS, how does either of those thing get you around a petition to revive if you enter the PCT number incorrectly in EFS and the PTO (illegally) chooses to rely on that information instead of the information you've provided elsewhere in the file? As far as the PTO is concerned, you didn't enter the national phase for the application you wanted to enter. So from the PTO's perspective, you missed your date and need to petition to revive. <br></div><div><br></div><div>What I did miss here? How does filing a copy of the published PCT save you the need to petition to revive?<br></div><div><br></div><div>(A separate but related question is, What happens to the applicant whose application number you mistakenly entered when he wants to file a 371?)</div><div><br></div>Dan</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 3:58\u202fPM Randall Svihla via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg5531561544506364844">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The PCT Help Desk recommended that we file a copy of the PCT publication in case the wrong PCT number was entered
into <span class="m_5531561544506364844SpellE">EFS</span> Web (now Patent Center) to avoid the need to file an expensive petition to revive the international application with respect to the U.S.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt"> Suzannah
K. Sundby <<a href="mailto:suzannah@canadylortz.com" target="_blank">suzannah@canadylortz.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August 1, 2024 8:18 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Randall Svihla <<a href="mailto:rsvihla@nsiplaw.com" target="_blank">rsvihla@nsiplaw.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> RE: [Patentpractice] National phase under 371 -- what's required?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Of course, file the translation as the spec, claims, abstract and drawings\u2026 but no need to file a copy of
the PCT publication (or even the PCT application as filed)\u2026 the USPTO automatically obtains those directly from WIPO
<u>so long as the US indicated on the IB308(second) form</u>:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt"> Patentpractice
<<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of
</span></b>Randall Svihla via Patentpractice<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August 1, 2024 8:12 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Randall Svihla <<a href="mailto:rsvihla@nsiplaw.com" target="_blank">rsvihla@nsiplaw.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Patentpractice] National phase under 371 -- what's required?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Almost all of U.S. National Stage applications we file require an English translation because the PCT application
was filed in a foreign language.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Randall S. Svihla<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">NSIP Law<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Washington, D.C.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt">
Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Carl Oppedahl via Patentpractice<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August 1, 2024 6:45 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Carl Oppedahl <<a href="mailto:carl@oppedahl.com" target="_blank">carl@oppedahl.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Patentpractice] National phase under 371 -- what's required?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">And what Suzannah describes (the filer having the self-control to avoid handing in a copy of spec-claims-abst-drawings when entering US national phase) is actually a Best Practice. It is a Best
Practice to have this self-control because it avoids the possible mistake of handing in
<b><i><span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">the wrong spec-claims-abst-drawings.</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">The sole exception being that if (a) the US national-phase entry is being done so early that the PCT publication has not yet happened, and (b) the US was not the RO, then yes you do have to file
a copy. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt">On 7/31/2024 5:59 PM, Suzannah K. Sundby via Patentpractice wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If the PCT is in English, I don\u2019t file a copy when entering the US national phase.<span>
</span>Never had an Examiner asking for a copy of the specification to be filed\u2026</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt">
Patentpractice <a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Randall Svihla via Patentpractice<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 31, 2024 7:21 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Randall Svihla <a href="mailto:rsvihla@nsiplaw.com" target="_blank">
<rsvihla@nsiplaw.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Patentpractice] National phase under 371 -- what's required?</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Yes, that's the way the USPTO lists a PCT publication filed with a National Stage application.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">But does image file wrapper contain documents coded as Specification, Claims, Abstract, and Drawings?<span>
</span>If not, you need to call the PCT Help Desk and ask them about this because this is not normal.<span>
</span>It appears that the USPTO changed the coding on the PCT publication you uploaded.<span>
</span>It seems to me you should not have split it up and coded it as you did.<span>
</span>The PCT people did not process this properly.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt">
Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Patent Lawyer via Patentpractice<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 31, 2024 7:07 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Patentpractice Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Patent Lawyer <<a href="mailto:patentlawyer995@gmail.com" target="_blank">patentlawyer995@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Patentpractice] National phase under 371 -- what's required?</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">What I failed to mention is that the PCT publication is listed in the IFW as:</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">\u201cDocuments submitted with 371 (National Stage) Applications\u201d</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">But when I filed the application, I listed the Abstract, Specification, drawings, and claims by page ranges, and this is correctly reflected on the PTO\u2019s acknowledgement receipt.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="3" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black;font-weight:bold">From:
</span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="color:black">Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> on behalf of Patentpractice Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span></b>Patentpractice Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span></b>Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 6:59 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span></b>Patentpractice Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span></b>Patent Lawyer <<a href="mailto:patentlawyer995@gmail.com" target="_blank">patentlawyer995@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span></b>[Patentpractice] National phase under 371 -- what's required?</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I filed a national phase application in the USPTO under 35 USC 371.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The International Bureau (IB) had already provided a copy of the application to the USPTO, but with the original filing I provided
a copy of the published application anyway.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The patent examiner now requires a copy of the specification. He has examined the application using the PCT publication. I informed
him that under the rules, I was not required to file a copy of the specification if the IB had already communicated it to the USPTO, which they had. However, I had already provided a copy. He mentioned that he always receives them, to which I responded that
I don\u2019t always file them if it's not required. </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">What he seems to want is a copy of the specification that is not the PCT publication.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">When I asked the examiner why he needed it, the reason he came up with is that it makes it easier for the publication team to make
corrections.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">He did not request a DOCX file. I do have the original Word file, but I don't see any reason to file it, especially since I amended
the specification upon entry to include a reference in the first paragraph to the PCT application.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">He agreed that I could defer this filing. I don\u2019t want to do the work of filing a substitute specification.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The examiner\u2019s office action on the merits is thorough and detailed, and he has a good understanding of the art, the invention, and,
of course BRI. My only issue is this requirement to file the specification in some other form than the office already has.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Under 37 CFR 1.495, the requirements for entering the national phase include:</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(1) A copy of the international application, unless it has been previously communicated by the International Bureau or unless it was
originally filed in the United States Patent and Trademark Office; and</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(2) The basic national fee (see § 1.492(a)).</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Am I correct in my understanding and citing the correct rule?</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Any suggestions for response.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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