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<p>Let's talk about three worlds:</p>
<ul>
<li>how it would be if the USPTO had taken WIPO's example of how
to do it right</li>
<li>how the USPTO says you should proceed</li>
<li>what your actual options are</li>
</ul>
<p>First, how it would be if the USPTO could ever admit that there
are learning opportunities in looking to see how other patent
offices do stuff. Which of course the USPTO cannot do. Suppose
that you have already filed a PCT application and you are claiming
priority from that exact same FPA. And only now have you come
into possession of the DAS Access Code. What you do is, you log
in at ePCT and you click around to do an "action" in ePCT to
request retrieval of the electronic certified copy of the FPA.
And then you provide the DAS Access Code. And ePCT then runs off
<i><b>in real time</b></i> and cross-checks against DAS to make
sure the DAS Access Code is correct (and cross-checks the
application number and the filing date and the two-letter code for
the Office of First Filing). And if you get a smiley face, you
know you are all done. Nothing to worry about further. (See for
example
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://patentcenter-tickets.oppedahl.com/patentcenter-feature-requests/#FR20">https://patentcenter-tickets.oppedahl.com/patentcenter-feature-requests/#FR20</a>
and FR21 and FR22.) Note that with this approach, nobody at any
patent office is required to hand-key anything. No need to worry
that a B might look like an 8 or vice versa.<br>
</p>
<p>Second, how the USPTO says you should proceed. See
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://blog.oppedahl.com/uspto-has-eviscerated-form-pto-sb-38/">https://blog.oppedahl.com/uspto-has-eviscerated-form-pto-sb-38/</a>
where I observe that the USPTO has eviscerated Form PTO/SB/38. So
the only remaining path is to hand in a corrected ADS. Keep in
mind that what the USPTO has in mind is that you will hand in all
eight pages of your ADS, the only change being that you inserted
the DAS access code and you underscored the change. Never mind
that if you somehow cram all of this information (including the
underscore) into the little tiny box for the DAS access code, it
will be too small to read the characters, especially after Patent
Center halftones it and resamples the dots-per-inch resolution.
And never mind that this requires USPTO personnel to somehow make
out the characters so that USPTO personnel can <i><b>hand-key</b></i>
everything into some other system at the USPTO. Never mind that a
poorly trained USPTO person might think that the "zero" in the DAS
Access Code is actually a "letter oh" and thus the retrieval
attempt would fail. <br>
</p>
<p>Oh and never mind that the USPTO clerk who goes on the treasure
hunt through all eight pages of your ADS, looking to see "where
are the strike-throughs and underscores", might miss it.</p>
<p>Anyway, now we turn to the actual options. One actual option is,
download the legacy Form SB38 from the blog posting above. Fill
in the blanks. E-file it at USPTO. If need be, send a followup
nudge to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:PDX@uspto.gov">PDX@uspto.gov</a>.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/6/2024 8:43 AM, Krista Jacobsen
via Patentpractice wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAN7twq2s=eKj6GSvaVr0rM-nUnj7sHh41U+NS9EiE4YcLwRiYw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi all,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have the same question as Erin, and I cannot find an
answer. Am I being dumb?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>An application ("FPA") was filed in a non-U.S. office, but
one that participates in DAS. <br>
</div>
<div>A U.S. non-provisional application ("USNP") was filed and
claims priority to FPA.</div>
<div>The DAS code for FPA was not provided by the foreign
associates before USNP was filed, so the DAS code does not
appear in the field of the ADS. <br>
</div>
<div>The 4/16 deadline is approaching, and I need to request
that the USPTO retrieve a certified copy of FPA from DAS.
(Will also be submitting an interim copy in case they dawdle.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It seems like it should be simple to do this ("Hi, here's
the DAS code for the application you already know about,
please retrieve it"), and yet I cannot figure out how.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Years ago when I had to do this, I submitted an SB/38 form,
which had an Option B that allowed the DAS code to be
provided. But that form is dated 2017 and seems to have been
abrogated.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The current SB/38 form only "requests that the USPTO
retrieve a copy of the following foreign priority
application(s) <u>that was not filed in a foreign
intellectual property office participating with the USPTO in
a priority document exchange agreement</u> ('Participating
Office') but was submitted in an application subsequently
filed with a Participating Office that permits the USPTO to
retrieve such copy." <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That is not my situation. I just need to provide a DAS code
so the USPTO can retrieve the application from another
Participating Office.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Do I submit a "corrected" ADS to provide the DAS code in
the foreign priority info section? <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is there a different form to do this that I have missed? I
looked through the list of forms provided by the USPTO and did
not see anything that seemed applicable.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks in advance.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Krista</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>------------------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div>Krista S. Jacobsen<br>
</div>
<div>Attorney and Counselor at Law</div>
<div>Jacobsen IP Law</div>
<div><a href="mailto:krista@jacobseniplaw.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">krista@jacobseniplaw.com</a></div>
<div>T: 408.455.5539</div>
<div><a href="http://www.jacobseniplaw.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.jacobseniplaw.com</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, May 16, 2024 at
9:52\u202fAM Erin Geraghty via Patentpractice <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="msg6990943373111424780">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_6990943373111424780WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">That
form seems to only allow for obtaining from an EP/JP
case in which the priority application was filed,
right? It does not mention obtaining the document
from WIPO.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Please retrieve the foreign
priority application identified in Column C, a copy
of which is contained in the EP or JP application
identified in Columns A and B:</i><i><span
style="font-size:11pt"></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">There
does not appear to be an actual form for requesting
the PTO pull the priority document via DAS? Am I
missing something?
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Apologies
if this is a stupid question, maybe I need more
caffeine.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Erin
D. Geraghty</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Office
Manager</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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and Neimark, PLLC</span></p>
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style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">1625 K
Street, N.W., Suite<b> 550</b></span></p>
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style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ering@browdyneimark.com</span></a>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Patentpractice <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Randall Svihla via
Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 16, 2024 11:50 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not
for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Randall Svihla <<a
href="mailto:rsvihla@nsiplaw.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rsvihla@nsiplaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] venting -
failure to download priority document from DAS</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Have you
ever try just filing a PTO/SB/38 Request to Retrieve
Electronic Priority Application(s) (the old form
with options A and B) to see if they would retrieve
it?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Patentpractice <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Linda Zaveta via
Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 16, 2024 10:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not
for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>;
Dan Feigelson <<a
href="mailto:djf@iliplaw.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">djf@iliplaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Linda Zaveta <<a
href="mailto:lzaveta@mtiplaw.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lzaveta@mtiplaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] venting -
failure to download priority document from DAS</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">It\u2019s
even more frustrating when they check the box on the
OA or NOA saying it was received and it hasn\u2019t
been. This happens a lot and when we check Patent
Center, it isn\u2019t there. Then we have to try and get
in touch with someone to request that they retrieve
it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Calligraphy";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sincerely</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Calligraphy";color:rgb(79,129,189)">,</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Calligraphy";color:rgb(79,129,189)">Linda</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Linda
Zaveta
</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(59,56,56)">|</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">
Paralegal</span><b><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Patentpractice <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Erin Geraghty via
Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 16, 2024 10:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dan Feigelson <<a
href="mailto:djf@iliplaw.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">djf@iliplaw.com</a>>;
For patent practitioners. This is not for
laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Erin Geraghty <<a
href="mailto:ErinG@browdyneimark.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ErinG@browdyneimark.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] venting -
failure to download priority document from DAS</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">I
agree this is incredibly frustrating! Especially as
they do not notify you when they have successfully
obtained it via DAS except by checking a box on an
OA or NOA. It is even more troubling when for some
reason they run into an issue and do not let you
know they have encountered an issue. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Also,
when they have not properly downloaded it, the
responsible parties at the PTO are less than helpful
when trying to figure out what happened.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Erin
D. Geraghty</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Office
Manager</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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and Neimark, PLLC</span></p>
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Street, N.W., Suite<b> 550</b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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D.C. 20006</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Tel:
443-386-7495</span></p>
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style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Fax:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Patentpractice <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dan Feigelson via
Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 16, 2024 8:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not
for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a
href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dan Feigelson <<a
href="mailto:djf@iliplaw.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">djf@iliplaw.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Patentpractice] venting - failure
to download priority document from DAS</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Filed an application that
claims priority only from a non-US application.
Foreign priority app is in DAS (I checked with
WIPO). Provided the USPTO with the foreign
application no. and the DAS retrieval code on an
ADS at the time of filing. Got the filing receipt,
and it acknowledges the foreign priority claim and
that the DAS code was provided, and says that the
USPTO "will attempt to electronically retrieve"
the priority doc. But of course, the p.d. isn't
yet in the electronic file.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">That the PTO waits to retrieve
the p.d. is not news, Carl and others have written
about it. But it still bugs me: how hard would it
be for the PTO to retrieve the document NOW
instead of waiting?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dan</p>
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