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<b><i>limitations which should reasonably have been expected to be claimed</i></b>
</div><div><br></div><div>I have never tried to petition that, but given the decisions I do get (some withdrawing finality, some not), that phrase won't buy you anything. It would have to be something like the previous action giving a 112(b) that the claim was missing an essential element or something like that, where the specific amendment was signaled by the examiner.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I agree with jeff -- if you hve good arguments, appeal. No requirement that you have given the arguments to the examiner before appeal -- but it's sure a way lot easier to appeal if you make the arguments in a Rule 116 Request for Reconsideration, and get the Advisory Action -- much easier to appeal once the examiner has put a position on paper. The hardest appeals are appeals of examiner silence. Much easier if you have the exameinr making a statement you can disagee with specifically.<br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 2:36\u202fPM Katherine Koenig via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg8139458264837232819">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Jeff, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you. Is appeal a good way to go if we have new references cited and don\u2019t yet have arguments over that art on the record?
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Katherine<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Dr. Katherine Koenig<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Registered Patent Attorney<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Koenig IP Works, PLLC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">2208 Mariner Dr.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">(954) 903-1699<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="mailto:katherine@koenigipworks.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">katherine@koenigipworks.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><img style="width: 1.6041in; height: 0.427in;" id="m_8139458264837232819Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:ii_191338319cc4cff311" width="154" height="41" border="0"></span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif;color:black">Targeted Intellectual Property Strategy</span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif;color:black">The information contained in this communication, including any attachments, is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Jeff Wendt <<a href="mailto:JLW@wendtfirm.com" target="_blank">JLW@wendtfirm.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 8, 2024 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Katherine Koenig <<a href="mailto:katherine@koenigipworks.com" target="_blank">katherine@koenigipworks.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Success of challenging finality of Office Action<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Katherine,<span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I would appeal. These days I MAY file one RCE, but no more.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jeffrey L Wendt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Wendt Firm PC<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">PO Box 26010<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Austin TX 78755<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_8139458264837232819AppleMailSignature">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">281/703-4820<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Wendtfirm.com<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:JLW@wendtfirm.com" target="_blank">JLW@wendtfirm.com</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i> </i><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">On Aug 8, 2024, at 1:17<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span>PM, Katherine Koenig via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">\ufeff</span> <span style="font-size:12pt">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi everyone, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We\u2019ve received a final Office Action for a relatively simple mechanical product, in which the Examiner asserts the finality is proper because our amendments necessitated it. We already gone two rounds with this Examiner, filed an RCE,
and this is the second Office Action after RCE. In this Final Office Action, these are primarily new references that we haven\u2019t yet considered. For most claims, our previous arguments are found persuasive, but new art is applied (rather than just sticking
to the original combination of references). As I noted, this is a relatively low-tech invention and I believe our amendments (at least our most recent round of amendments) should not be surprising.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Has anyone had success in overturning the finality of an Office Action based on this argument from MPEP 706.07(a)?
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A second or any subsequent action on the merits in any application or patent involved in reexamination proceedings should not be made final if it includes a rejection on
<b><i>prior art not of record</i></b> of any claim amended to include <b><i>limitations which should reasonably have been expected to be claimed</i></b>. See <b><a href="https://mpep.uspto.gov/RDMS/MPEP/current#/current/d0e115569.html" target="_blank">MPEP § 904</a></b> <i>et
seq. </i>However, note that an examiner cannot be expected to foresee whether or how an applicant will amend a claim to overcome a rejection except in very limited circumstances (e.g., where the examiner suggests how applicant can overcome a rejection under <b><a href="https://mpep.uspto.gov/RDMS/MPEP/current#/current/d0e302824912.html%23%23al_d1d85b_2ae65_215" target="_blank">35
U.S.C. 112(b)</a></b> or <b><a href="https://mpep.uspto.gov/RDMS/MPEP/current#/current/d0e302824.html" target="_blank">pre-AIA 35 U.S.C. 112</a></b>, second paragraph).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Best regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Katherine</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Dr. Katherine Koenig</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Registered Patent Attorney</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Koenig IP Works, PLLC</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">2208 Mariner Dr.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">(954) 903-1699</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="mailto:katherine@koenigipworks.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">katherine@koenigipworks.com</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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