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Hi Richard,</div>
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If I understand India's patent law correctly, the one subject to India law cannot cause an application to be made. There is no rule that I am aware of that they cannot assign their interest in intellectual property over to some other person.</div>
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Of course, if that other person happens to be under US law and not India law, then that person would follow the US law and file in the US first. Or, they could request an FFL from the US (without filing), and then file in India first (of course, with the latest
link you posted I'm not sure about the advisability of that). If they filed in the US first, the person subject to India law could refuse to assist in causing an application to be made. For example, they could refuse to sign a Declaration of Inventorship.
But if they had already signed an assignment of IP (e.g., pursuant to an employment contract, joint venture agreement, etc.), then the person subject to US law (and holding the assignment of IP rights from the person subject to India law) could file a substitute
declaration...</div>
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In which case, based on what I (as a person not qualified to have an opinion on India law) can discern of India law, then the letter of the law has been followed, and a subsequent India patent (e.g., via PCT) would not necessarily be invalid, and the India
person would not need to go to jail.</div>
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FYI, commentary I read from India lawyers indicated that the security law has not ever been known to be enforced, so we don't really know how the courts would apply it. </div>
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Hope those musings help ... these are NOT legal opinions and should not be relied on!</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Richard Straussman via Patentpractice <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 13, 2024 9:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carl Oppedahl <carl@oppedahl.com>; For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Richard Straussman <rstraussman@weitzmanip.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Foreign Filing License Incongruity Question</span>
<div> </div>
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<div style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">LOL - I would sooner take legal advice from the PTO (less lethal the cyanide, but potentially just as dangerous).<br>
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<div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>Richard Straussman</b></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 128);"><b><br>
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<div>On 8/13/2024 10:45 AM, Carl Oppedahl wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>Speaking of hallucinating ... I assume that one option is to ask ChatGPT how to solve your fact pattern.</p>
<div>On 8/13/2024 8:11 AM, Richard Straussman via Patentpractice wrote:</div>
<blockquote><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Carl,<br>
<br>
THANK YOU for pointing out that link! I am glad to see that I am not hallucinating the potential issue.<br>
<br>
</span>
<div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>Richard Straussman</b></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 128);"><b><br>
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<div>On 8/13/2024 10:05 AM, Carl Oppedahl wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>WIPO has a collection <a href="https://www.wipo.int/pct/en/texts/nat_sec.html" id="OWA2cf7ef2e-8950-dfd6-bd5b-6101d1a2d665" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext OWAAutoLink" shash="y+2up1oxhNlhm/j/Kdx7g38NRhmvssiE/C5k8cx1JoyBtkWsEPbn9UIftdBZxY2m7SXrkKRO7RUaN8RZLJY1qEI7NKdsYqyhlvMMa8vYGpPmRStoQUyCVNrKXknkExMXXNTZjiVjtXkmGNe8MPz9r5waK74PrV00v656i8oECbo=" originalsrc="https://www.wipo.int/pct/en/texts/nat_sec.html" data-auth="Verified" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
https://www.wipo.int/pct/en/texts/nat_sec.html</a> of national security requirements for about 24 countries. It is a straightforward matter to run one's finger down through the list of 24 requirements, and to work out country-pairs where it is literally impossible
to figure out how to proceed. I'd guess you have identified one of the "impossible" country-pairs.</p>
<p>You know how there are cruise ships whose entire business model is, the ship comes into port, picks up passengers, and then sails some number of miles out to sea, past a territorial limit or something. So that everybody can gamble and it does not violate
the laws of any country because it is in international waters.</p>
<p>The only solution I can see for some of the country pairs is to roll back the clock and put your two inventors on such a ship. And time it all so that the inventing happens only in international waters.</p>
<p>What you will find, when you run your finger down the list of countries, is that the precise trigger (the thing that makes it so that somebody goes to prison or whatever) is very different from one country to the next. With some countries, it is "where
was the invention made?" With some countries it is "is any inventor a citizen of our country?" So if the country you are worried about triggers on citizenship of inventor, it does not help to put the inventors on Carl's cruise ship.</p>
<p>Also look at consequences of failure, per country. If the only consequence of failure is "you lose your patent rights in that country" then that might turn out to be a business decision of "who cares?" If on the other hand the consequence is prison time,
well, that might be a greater concern.</p>
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<div>On 8/13/2024 7:38 AM, Richard Straussman via Patentpractice wrote:</div>
<blockquote>All,<br>
<br>
I am wracking my brain over this one and am looking for the collective wisdom of the brilliant members of the ListServ.<br>
<br>
Assume that an invention is jointly collaboratively developed and invented by two persons, one located in and a resident of, the U.S., and the other located in and a resident of India. <br>
<br>
Both countries require a foreign filing license before the technology can be "exported." If the U.S. is to be the place of first filing, then one needs to get an Indian FFL before that filing. However, in order to do so, the Indian Patent Office needs the
application to review it. But sending it to them theoretically violates the need for a U.S. FFL. Likewise, if India is to be the place of first filing, then you need a U.S. FFL before you can file there, but that would violate the Indian requirement.<br>
<br>
Assume that first filing a PCT application is NOT an option (irrespective of whether or not that solves the problem), how have folks in such a situation reconciled the issue?<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance!<br>
<br>
<div>--<br>
<span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>Richard Straussman</b></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 128);"><b><br>
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