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Jeroen that is very helpful insight. One quick question off the top of my head (I haven't re-checked the relevant rules so may be remembering a simplification). Is filing with RO/CN permitted by a US applicant if there is a CN co-inventor, or does at least
one applicant have to have residency in CN?</div>
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I'm guessing if you didn't have the right to file RO/CN, you could always file a CN national application then file RO/IB claiming priority after CN FFL is issued.</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Valensa, Jeroen via Patentpractice <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 14, 2024 8:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Valensa, Jeroen <jevalensa@aosmith.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Foreign Filing License Incongruity Question</span>
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<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">I face the China/US mixed inventorship quite often as well, but take a different approach from what Scott describes. We have the patent application drafted by a US firm, in English
of course, as a US-style application. We then submit that draft to the USPTO with a request for FFL. Those requests are granted fairly quickly, usually just a matter of days. Then, we file that English-language application as a PCT application with the
Chinese patent office as the receiving office. Chinese law is satisfied because it was first filed in China, and US law is satisfied by the FFL.</p>
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<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 133, 62);"><b>Jeroen Valensa</b></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);">Assistant General Counsel Intellectual Property</span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Wingdings; font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);">*</span><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);"> email:</span><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(0, 133, 62);">
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<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Nielson via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 13, 2024 5:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Scott Nielson <scnielson@outlook.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Foreign Filing License Incongruity Question</p>
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<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: black;">I've had to deal with this issue in the context of Chinese/U.S. law (Chinese inventors in China and US inventors in the
U.S.). In that case, I drafted the patent application and had all the inventors review it. Once they approved it, I sent it to a Chinese law firm who translated it and filed a request with CNIPA for a Chinese filing license (I believe it's called a security
clearance). The Chinese firm did not file a Chinese patent application. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: black;">With the Chinese security clearance in hand, I then filed the U.S. patent application. Upon receiving the filing receipt
granting the foreign filing license, the Chinese law firm filed a Chinese application claiming priority to the U.S. patent application. Technically, there was no need to file the Chinese application at that time (could have waited and filed a PCT and entered
the Chinese national phase), but that was the arrangement between the two parties who collaborated to develop the technology.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: black;">Regarding U.S. law, there are two things to keep in mind. The first is that there are export laws that are separate from
patent laws. These are things like EAR, ITAR, etc. These prevent U.S. companies from exporting certain technology (usually military, nuclear, etc.). These are the laws that prevent companies from collaborating with other people/companies outside the U.S. or
foreign nationals inside the U.S. As long as a U.S. company is not violating these laws, they can collaborate with foreign companies as much as they want including developing new technology/inventions. Most companies who are subject to export restrictions
are well aware that they are subject to export restrictions and act accordingly.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: black;">The second is that U.S. patent law requires an FFL to
<b><i>file a foreign patent application </i></b>for an invention that was <b><i>made in the U.S.</i></b> A U.S. company does not need an FFL to collaborate with a company or person on the technology. It needs it to file a foreign patent application.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: black;">I was able to draft the patent application and have the inventors in China and U.S. review it is because the subject matter
of the application is not export restricted by the U.S. or China (I relied on the Chinese company and law firm to confirm Chinese law). The Chinese law firm was able to use the draft application to obtain a Chinese security clearance because they were not
filing a patent application. Once I filed the U.S. application and received an FFL, then the Chinese firm was able to file the Chinese patent application. I probably could have done the reverse (get a U.S. FFL first, file in China and get a security clearance,
and then file in the U.S.; I might do this next time given that CNIPA takes its sweet time deciding security clearance requests).</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: rgb(31, 56, 100);"><b>Scott Nielson</b></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Aptos Serif", serif; color: black;">801-660-4400</span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: black;"><b>From:</b> Patentpractice <</span><span style="color: blue;"><u><a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWAeb0c0fee-fdb7-683f-95bc-4f81c4efaa4d" class="OWAAutoLink" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a></u></span><span style="color: black;">>
on behalf of Richard Straussman via Patentpractice <</span><span style="color: blue;"><u><a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA65f02e98-6027-dc85-dc51-7b7d92920bb4" class="OWAAutoLink" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a></u></span><span style="color: black;">><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 13, 2024 7:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <</span><span style="color: blue;"><u><a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWA168b6f35-795e-f254-51d0-dd7f4f2d340b" class="OWAAutoLink" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a></u></span><span style="color: black;">><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Richard Straussman <</span><span style="color: blue;"><u><a href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com" id="OWAc1ffa9ba-2979-2d0b-f391-1031f4d03d05" class="OWAAutoLink" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a></u></span><span style="color: black;">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Patentpractice] Foreign Filing License Incongruity Question</span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">
All,<br>
<br>
I am wracking my brain over this one and am looking for the collective wisdom of the brilliant members of the ListServ.<br>
<br>
Assume that an invention is jointly collaboratively developed and invented by two persons, one located in and a resident of, the U.S., and the other located in and a resident of India. <br>
<br>
Both countries require a foreign filing license before the technology can be "exported." If the U.S. is to be the place of first filing, then one needs to get an Indian FFL before that filing. However, in order to do so, the Indian Patent Office needs the
application to review it. But sending it to them theoretically violates the need for a U.S. FFL. Likewise, if India is to be the place of first filing, then you need a U.S. FFL before you can file there, but that would violate the Indian requirement.<br>
<br>
Assume that first filing a PCT application is NOT an option (irrespective of whether or not that solves the problem), how have folks in such a situation reconciled the issue?<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance!</p>
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--<br>
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