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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Good questions, Tim.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I have a follow up:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Is an e-notarization the same as / as strong as / as effective as a normal notarization?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dale<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">C. Dale Quisenberry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Quisenberry Law PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">13910 Champion Forest Drive, Suite 203<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Houston, Texas 77069<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.5000 (office)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.1000 (mobile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.5555 (facsimile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.quisenberrylaw.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.quisenberrylaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Timothy Snowden via Patentpractice <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, 22 August 2024 at 2:51</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">\u202f</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">pm<br>
<b>To: </b>For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Timothy Snowden <Timothy@thompsonpatentlaw.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Patentpractice] Assignment of US National Phase of foreign-origin PCT<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">HI David \u2013 while we're on this subject, I did have a rhetorical question I've always wondered about.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">How does a written-digital signature differ from an ink signature in that respect? (especially one that's scanned in ... and you may never get the original because
the client / inventor / somebody never gets around to sending it). For example, suppose all you have is a scan of an original \u2013 how do you prove that it wasn't forged?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">With DocuSign, if you also require 2FA (like a pin from the inventor's cellphone), wouldn't that provide some better evidence? Would the shape of the signature
be more convincing in scanned vs e-signed? Even with the original, it could be forged as well (especially the way so many people sign...)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Of course, no argument that a notarized, inked signature is best. I'm just wondering out loud about the cases where the practicalities of getting those are challenging.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Another can of worms \u2013 e-notarization (e.g., Texas has a special level of authorization for notaries to e-notarize)? Any better than ink signature?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf
of David Boundy via Patentpractice <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 22, 2024 2:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Boundy <PatentProcedure@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Boundy <PatentProcedure@gmail.com>; For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Assignment of US National Phase of foreign-origin PCT</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Another thing to never do -- electronic signatures. An electronic signature is no better -- no, it's worse -- than a plain old ink signature. Remember that if a signature isn't notarized, the burden is on
the patent owner to prove up authenticity of the signature. So say the inventor goes to work for a competitor, and all you've got is a Docusign signature. The inventor sure isn't going to testify "Oh yeah, I remember Docusigning that. It's genuine." No.
You're going to have to roll this stone up every inch of the hill all by yourself. The only real argument or verification you've got is an IP address. Yeah right. Suppose there's one IP address for the whole building, or that the building has a floating
IP address that changes day to day. How ya gonna prove that the signature wasn't forged by the boss who was under the gun to get some patent filing metric?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 9:20</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">AM David Boundy <<a href="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com">PatentProcedure@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The one thing to NEVER do -- the US PTO used to have a form assignment. It was flamboyantly incompetent -- it didn't include necessary magic words for the U.S., and it granted a license to use to the attorney!
If the assignment you're using still has the language "use and behoof" and "for use of representatives" you're creating trouble!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 9:05</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">AM Ed Welch via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Perhaps WIPO should task itself with creating a \u201cuniversal\u201d assignment, which endeavors to address the critical elements/requirements of the major countries, and then seeks adoption of that
assignment document by its member countries. Those that accept it are bound to it, at least with respect to an International PCT patent application and its national phase siblings; regardless of conflicting national language. The form would not be a requirement,
but an option; whereby a US originated case may not adopt its use to account for state laws. Maybe I\u2019m being too simplistic!</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Ed Welch</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Carl Oppedahl via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 21, 2024 6:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Carl Oppedahl <<a href="mailto:carl@oppedahl.com">carl@oppedahl.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Assignment of US National Phase of foreign-origin PCT</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Yes I have had such questions from foreign associates a dozen times in the past thirty years, and I am always troubled by it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Indeed think how this kind of project could blow up. One reason it could blow up is that what is often at least implied in such a question is a hope that somehow you are smarter than anybody anywhere in the world, because
you somehow know what ten or twenty sets of "magic words" need to be inserted into a proposed Assignment that would make it legally enforceable in the whole world, in every country of the world.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">We already know this cannot possibly be within the abilities of any particular single practitioner, no matter how smart they are. I am told by some European practitioners that one of the requirements for an Assignment to work
in some European countries is, the document is required to be signed not only by the Assignor but also by the Assignee. I am also told that in some European countries, the mere fact of the inventor drawing paychecks from an employer might mean the rights
are not owned by the inventor. In which case maybe if someone were to stick a would-be Assignment under the nose of the inventor to sign might not lead to any rights being assigned because the inventor has no rights to assign.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I am told by some Japanese practitioners that in Japan, even if an American-style assignment were to be signed by a Japanese inventor, it probably does not settle the question of who owns what, because there are laws about
how much compensation needs to be paid to the inventor. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Just within the US, we have questions that might make for a surprise about who owns what, questions that are state-specific within our 50 states. In California there have been cases where it made a difference whether or not
the inventor was married at the time the invention was made. I am absolutely sure that I lack competency to give legal advice in Louisiana not only because I am not admitted to practice there, but because that law is based not on US common law but instead
is based upon the Napoleonic Code. There is some word "usufruct" that absolutely means something super important about property rights in Louisiana (see
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usufruct#Louisiana">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usufruct#Louisiana</a> ) but that does not arise in 48 other states. Whatever "usufruct" means legally in Louisiana, I lack competence to say whether it does or does not
apply in any particular would-be patent assignment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Think of the Assignments that we have all seen over the years, where the drafter of the document larded it with language requiring the hapless inventor to make lots of representations and warranties that the inventor owned
all rights, and was of sound mind, and had consulted counsel, and was delivering good title, and conveyed it all to the Assignee. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Think of the Assignments we have seen where the document fails to recite any consideration. Recall that in law school we were taught that depending on what jurisdiction we are drafting to meet, maybe it is required to recite
consideration. Maybe we need to recite at least One Dollar? A peppercorn? Think of the Assignments we have seen where the hapless inventor is being required to make a party admission that the (unspecified) consideration is "good and sufficient". <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Now maybe your request from the FA is narrower. Maybe they are only asking you to draft up a document that conveys "the US patent rights" or "the US designation from the PCT application". Even then there are things to go
wrong. We have our fifty-states issue for one thing. And even a document which superficially seems to assign only US rights will often have some word-creep that sort of purports to assign "the invention set forth in" or "the invention", which sounds a lot
like assigning "everything" regardless of geography.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Sometimes I sort of give up and draft up something that is a mere quitclaim deed. A document which, correctly understood and interpreted, amounts to nothing more than "who knows whether or not I have any rights in the US,
but to the extent that I do, I hereby convey them". Again is a peppercorn enough? One US dollar? An unspecified "good and sufficient consideration"?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">One of the nice anecdotes in "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feinman" is the place where somebody demanded he sign some patent assignment at Los Alamos, and it said he was being paid one dollar, and he said he would only sign if
he actually were to receive the dollar. And of course the government bureaucracy and paperwork to carry out the payment of the one dollar took weeks or months to satisfy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">In the "Oppenheimer" movie there is the half-a-second bit of film, a throwaway quick action cut, that shows a fellow slapping away on bongo drums shortly after the big test explosion in New Mexico. That's a true story and
it was Feinman.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Anyway, yes, I don't even think I could draft a document that I could promise would work in all fifty of the United States. If I don't think I could do that, how could I possibly add to the mix the need to deal with whatever
is different about the law when you get to foreign countries?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I was born in a place in New Mexico that is walking distance from the place where that first big test happened. Thank goodness it was more than a decade later than the test. But occasionally a friend or relative will ask
whether this geography somehow explains one or another of my personality quirks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On 8/20/2024 7:51 PM, Katherine Koenig via Patentpractice wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">A FA has asked me to file the US National Phase application of a PCT application (RO/GB, with two GB priority applications). They\u2019ve also asked me to send an Assignment of the US application for signature. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt">My brain is hanging up on this for some reason \u2013 does it make sense (would it be unauthorized practice) for me to send them a US assignment of a US patent application, if the applicant and inventor are both in the UK? Would
the contract be governed by UK law, and therefore I couldn\u2019t prepare it for them? I\u2019ve asked the FA for a copy of any assignment that\u2019s already been made, but I\u2019ve so far only received the request to prepare one for the US. If they\u2019re unable to send me prior
assignment(s), would a better approach be to prepare a confirmatory assignment (but what if I don\u2019t know the terms of prior assignment(s))? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Best regards,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Katherine</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Dr. Katherine Koenig</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Registered Patent Attorney</span></i><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Koenig IP Works, PLLC</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">2208 Mariner Dr.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif;color:black">Targeted Intellectual Property Strategy</span></i><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:black"><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"><span style="color:black">Listed as one of the world's 300 leading intellectual property strategists</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#667FA0"><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"><span style="color:#667FA0;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="73" height="92" style="width:.7604in;height:.9583in" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:~WRD1494.jpg" alt="Image removed by sender."></span><span style="color:#667FA0;text-decoration:none">
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<p><span style="color:black"><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"><span style="color:black">Listed as one of the world's 300 leading intellectual property strategists</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><a href="http://ssrn.com/author=2936470">Articles at http://ssrn.com/author=2936470</a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"><a href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?"><span style="color:black">Click here to add me to your contacts.</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:blue"><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy">David Boundy</a></span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#666666"><a href="mailto:dboundy@cambridgetechlaw.com">DBoundy@cambridgetechlaw.com</a> /
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<p><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#666666">Cambridge Technology Law LLC</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#666666"><br>
686 Massachusetts Avenue #201, Cambridge MA 02139<br>
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