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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks, David.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">C. Dale Quisenberry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Quisenberry Law PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">13910 Champion Forest Drive, Suite 203<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Houston, Texas 77069<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.5000 (office)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.1000 (mobile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.5555 (facsimile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.quisenberrylaw.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.quisenberrylaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black">david@hricik.com <david@hricik.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, 9 December 2024 at 3:28</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">\u202f</span><span style="color:black">pm<br>
<b>To: </b>patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Dale Quisenberry <dale@quisenberrylaw.com>, patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Patentpractice] Patent lawyer as inventor on client's application?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If you Google Hricik and \u201csave a little room for me\u201d you\u2019ll find a piece I wrote a while back about this issue. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">David Hricik<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">151 Country Creek Rd.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Macon, GA 31220<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Dec 9, 2024, at 4:20<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span>PM, Dale Quisenberry via Patentpractice <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">\ufeff</span> <o:p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">What about situation where client has a computer-implemented invention and patent attorney provides a form figure that illustrates basics of a computer and some form language that explains what
is shown in the figure?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">C. Dale Quisenberry</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Quisenberry Law PLLC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">13910 Champion Forest Drive, Suite 203</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Houston, Texas 77069</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.5000 (office)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.1000 (mobile)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(832) 680.5555 (facsimile)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.quisenberrylaw.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.quisenberrylaw.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#685C53">This email may contain information that is confidential and subject to the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine and other applicable
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black">Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Richard Straussman via Patentpractice <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, 9 December 2024 at 3:02</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">\u202f</span><span style="color:black">pm<br>
<b>To: </b>patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Richard Straussman <rstraussman@weitzmanip.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Patentpractice] Patent lawyer as inventor on client's application?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:Helvetica">I agree with Suzannah and follow a similar approach. However, I could dream up some fringe cases where the patent attorney has particular expertise similar to that of the
inventors and the patent attorney notices, for example, an enablement problem/issue that involves a detailed discussion back and forth until a solution is arrived at, and thereby results in the possibility of the patent attorney being a co-inventor. In such
a rare case, I saw it happen once in 30+ years (not involving me but, a colleague), and Carl's approach was used to address it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue">Richard Straussman</span></strong><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:navy"><br>
</span></b><span class="c4"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Senior Counsel</span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span></b><span class="c6"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt">Registered Patent Attorney</span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span></b><span class="c6"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">Member NY, NJ & CT Bars</span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span><strong><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#989898">. . . . . . . . . . . . . .</span></strong>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon">Weitzman Law Offices, LLC</span></strong><span style="color:maroon"><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Intellectual Property Law</span></strong><br>
</span></span><span class="c4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401</span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon"><br>
</span><span class="c4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Roseland, NJ 07068</span></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon"><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">direct line</span></strong></span><span class="c16">
</span><span class="c6"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">973.403.9943</span></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#656565"><br>
</span><strong><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon">main</span></strong><span class="c16">
</span><span class="c6"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">973.403.9940</span></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#656565"><br>
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<strong><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">e-mail</span></strong></span><span class="c16">
</span><span class="c13"><span style="font-size:8.0pt"><a href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a></span></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon"><br>
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<strong><u><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></u></strong><b><u><br>
</u></b><br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/9/2024 3:40 PM, Suzannah K. Sundby via Patentpractice wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I\u2019d also question whether the patent attorney is truly a \u201cjoint\u201d inventor, i.e., worked in \u2018collaboration\u2019, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Imho, patent attorneys should never
<i>write themselves in</i> as an inventor. After all, it is our job to write what the inventors envision is their invention, not what we think the inventors want to invent.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If a patent attorney has a question as to whether a particular embodiment/application/combination is contemplated by the inventors and should therefore be included as a claim, the patent
attorney should ask as the inventors a <i>leading</i> question, e.g., Do you envision that this could be \u2026 ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Sometimes they say something that\u2019s a great idea or yes, that\u2019s how it could be implemented\u2026 I then correct them and say it is what I understood from their own disclosure and/or I didn\u2019t
know whether it would work or not which is why I asked, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssundby/"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">Suzannah K. Sundby</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">
<b><span style="color:#0000CC">|</span></b> Partner</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#0000CC"><a href="http://www.canadylortz.com/"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#0000CC;text-decoration:none">canady + lortz</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#0000CC;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">LLP</span></span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">1050 30th Street, NW</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Washington, DC 20007</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">T: 202.486.8020</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">F: 202.540.8020</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#0000CC"><a href="mailto:suzannah@canadylortz.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#0000CC;text-decoration:none">suzannah@canadylortz.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#7F7F7F">Confidentiality Notice: This message is being sent by or on behalf of a lawyer. It is intended exclusively for the individual
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Patentpractice
<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Boundy via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 9, 2024 1:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Boundy <a href="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com"><PatentProcedure@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Patent lawyer as inventor on client's application?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">My view is that you should not name yourself inventor without a Really Good Reason. Here are the reasons that you should not name yourself as inventor:</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-listoutdent1typedletter-number" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u25cf If you are merely the attorney, not the inventor, you are unlikely to be called for deposition\u2014attorneys generally don\u2019t get deposed unless there\u2019s some smell of inequitable conduct in the air
first.<a name="_ftnref1"></a><a href="#_ftn1"><span class="gmail-msofootnotereference"><sup>[1]</sup></span></a> However, if you are a named inventor, you
<i>will</i> be deposed. And once you\u2019re in the hot seat in your role as inventor, the scope of questions that you can be asked has little bound, including \u201cfishing expedition\u201d questions for inequitable conduct that couldn\u2019t be asked if you weren\u2019t already
there.<a name="_ftnref2"></a><a href="#_ftn2"><span class="gmail-msofootnotereference"><sup>[2]</sup></span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-listoutdent1typedletter-number" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u25cf When a statement of fact made solely as
<i>attorney argument</i> is erroneous without intent, it\u2019s not inequitable conduct.</span><a name="_ftnref3"></a><a href="#_ftn3"><span class="gmail-msofootnotereference"><sup><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">[3]</span></sup></span></a><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
However, if you are the inventor, the same argument could be an <i>inventor\u2019s statement</i>, and that statement might be evaluated for inequitable conduct on a far different standard.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-listoutdent1typedletter-number" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u25cf As a person that is likely to become a witness, you are disqualified from representing the client in any litigation. The disqualification may extend to your firm.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">While the Federal Circuit has not explicitly blessed the practice, it has at least told district courts not to invalidate such patents under old § 102(f) (\u201cA person shall be
entitled to a patent unless \u2026 he did not himself invent the subject matter sought to be patented.\u201d), nor to correct inventorship under § 256:</span><a href="#_ftn1"><span class="gmail-msofootnotereference"><sup><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">[4]</span></sup></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">\u2026 An attorney\u2019s professional responsibility is to assist his or her client in defining her invention to obtain, if possible, a valid patent with maximum coverage. An attorney performing
that role should not be a competitor of the client, asserting his inventorship as a result of representing his client. Thus, to assert that proper performance of the attorney\u2019s role is a ground for invalidating the patent constitutes a failure to understand
the proper role of the patent attorney.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span class="gmail-msofootnotereference"><sup>[1]</sup></span> <i>Ring Plus Inc v Cingular Wireless Corp.</i>, 614 F.3d 1354, ___, 6 USPQ2d 1022, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2010) (material misstatement in Background was material to inequitable conduct, but did not establish
intent to deceive); Taltech Ltd v Esquel Ents Ltd., 604 F3d 1324, ___, 95 USPQ2d 1257, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2010) (inequitable conduct & atty fees in undisclosed prior art, atty misstatement; intent inferred from circumstance & lack evidence of good faith).</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span class="gmail-msofootnotereference"><sup>[2]</sup></span> Exergen Corp v Wal-Mart Stores Inc., 575 F3d 1312, ___, 91 USPQ2d 1656, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2009) (FRCP 9(b) pleading of inequitable conduct reqs specific who, what, when, where and how, including facts
implying intent).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span class="gmail-msofootnotereference"><sup>[3]</sup></span> <i>Intirtool Ltd v Texar Corp.</i>, 369 F3d 1289, ___, 70 USPQ2d 1780, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2004) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i>Norian Corp v Stryker Corp.</i>, 363 F3d 1321, 70 USPQ2d 1508 (Fed. Cir. 2004) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i>CFMT Inc v Yieldup Int\u2019l Corp.</i>, 349 F3d 1333, ___, 68 USPQ2d 1940, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2003) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i>Transonic Systems Inc v Non-Invasive Medical Technologies Corp.</i>, 75 Fed.Appx. 765 (Fed. Cir. 2003) (unpublished) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i>Gambro Lundia AB v Baxter Healthcare Corp</i>, 110 F3d 1573, ___, 42 USPQ2d 1378, ___ (Fed. Cir. 1997).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span class="gmail-msofootnotereference"><sup>[4]</sup></span> <i>Solomon v. Kimberly-Clark Corp.</i>, 216 F.3d 1372, 1382, 55 USPQ2d 1279, 1285 (Fed. Cir. 2000).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 1:40<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span>PM Carl Oppedahl via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>I have had this happen half a dozen times over the years. I send the standard email "here are the claims, please look at them and tell me if we have named all of the inventors" and next thing you know, I am told I am a co-inventor.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>When this happens, I simply sign a declaration and asssignment, record the assignment, and give it no further thought.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Yes I suppose one could concoct situations where (for example) a malfeasant patent attorney could intentionally slip a "not" into the assignment, or could intentionally do something or another during prosecution that would somehow favor the attorney. To
the extent that one decides that such risks would need to be somehow addressed, yes one cannot imagine any approach other than transferring everything about the case (including the assignment task) to separate counsel.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>One imagines the client would get stuck paying lots of money to new counsel for them to spend the time needed gain familiarity with the file.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I guess I have sort of assumed that if I can be trusted not to screw over the client in the handling of the file in general (before I was identified as a co-inventor), I ought to be able to be trusted not to screw over the client in the remaining tasks.
But you raise valid questions that I have never thought about.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/9/2024 1:03 PM, Patent Lawyer via Patentpractice wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What issues / concerns are there with a patent attorney being named an inventor on their client's patent application?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Assume that the attorney will assign all rights in the invention to the client/applicant, should the attorney advise them to have someone else handle the assignment?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Are there privilege issues? (In a communication with the client, who are you? Attorney or co-inventor?)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Does the patent attorney have to advise the PTO? Is there a conflict of any sort?<o:p></o:p></p>
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