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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I have been named as an inventor a few times, despite my strong attempts to avoid this.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Most of the times it has been when I thought of an \u201cadd-on\u201d that the other inventors thought worth protecting, but where none were willing to take
the blame if it proved useless.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Once it was because I had a completely new idea for a product that was made possible by the client\u2019s process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In each case the information I based the invention on was the result of the client\u2019s proprietary information.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In no world in the multiverse would I have considered the invention my property (a fiduciary relationship bears fiduciary consequences) and so I
assigned the invention free of charge to the clients. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I have never regretted this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Reader: None of the inventions were a commercial success. One cost the client a lot of money showing it was not a commercial success.]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#D50037">Jim Boff</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:remialcxesans;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:template-c9e0vNweEey2VigYeLE9Mw;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:zone-1;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:zones-AQ;color:white">\u200b</span></b><b><span style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#D50037"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Partner<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Intellectual Property<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:white">[V1.1a]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Tel:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F"> <a href="tel:+44%20(0)20%207504%201174" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3F3F3F;text-decoration:none">+44 (0)20 7504 1174</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Mobile:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F"> <a href="tel:+44%20(0)7810%20376754" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3F3F3F;text-decoration:none">+44 (0)7810 376754</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Email:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F"> <a href="mailto:jboff@greenwoods.co.uk" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3F3F3F;text-decoration:none">jboff@greenwoods.co.uk</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Suzannah K. Sundby via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 10, 2024 6:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com>; David Boundy <PatentProcedure@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Suzannah K. Sundby <suzannah@canadylortz.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Patent lawyer as inventor on client's application?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I agree with Richard.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The patent attorney should not have crossed over the line of \u201cinventing\u201d if the particular embodiment was clearly not envisioned by the inventor, the patent attorney should
not have overstepped and become an inventor of a \u201ccombination invention\u201d that his client/inventor never contemplated in the first place.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">But since it is what it is now, imo, the best thing to do is to explain the pros and cons of naming the patent attorney as an inventor and let the client decide\u2026 and if the
patent attorney is named as an inventor\u2026 seems to me that maybe new patent counsel should take over prosecution to avoid potential conflicts of interest, e.g., bias simply by way of the patent attorney\u2019s own desire to be named or not named as an inventor\u2026
or bias as to how the claims are interpreted e.g., an interpretation or argument over the prior art could be detrimental to the \u201ccombination invention\u201d the patent attorney invented as opposed to another interpretation or argument that would be best for the
client\u2019s ultimate goals & pocketbook.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard Straussman via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 10, 2024 1:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Boundy <<a href="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com">PatentProcedure@gmail.com</a>>; For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Richard Straussman <<a href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Patent lawyer as inventor on client's application?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">My issue is the attorney should not be putting on their "inventor" hat at all. If they see an extension/improvement, they should put on their "interrogator"
hat and do their damnedest to get the inventor to acknowledge that is part of their invention. I have done that and it may have been easier to pull teeth, but eventually they come around. If they won't and are adamant, then that is not their invention and
that is what you have been hired to protect - not the lawyer's invention based upon their client's. Again, the difference is highlighted with my example below. If the lawyer knows of a trivial or straightforward substitution that is not really inventive
(e.g., merely replacing a mechanical part with the electrical equivalent or vice versa, or certain software with its hardware circuit equivalent or vice versa) that is O.K. and what the lawyer is hired to apply their technical skills to do.<br>
<br>
I realize that there is an in-between grey zone where the delineation between lawyer and inventor is not entirely clear - and different lawyers will use different dividing lines therewithin, but I try my damnedest to find a line that I can live with within
that grey zone, and can ethically defend while doing right by the client, and stay on what I perceive to be the non-inventor side of that line.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue">Richard Straussman</span></strong><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:navy"><br>
</span></b><span class="c4"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Senior Counsel</span></b></span><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span></b><span class="c6"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt">Registered Patent Attorney</span></b></span><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span></b><span class="c6"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt">Member NY, NJ & CT Bars</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span><strong><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#989898">. . . . . . . . . . . . . .</span></strong><span lang="EN-US">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon">Weitzman Law Offices, LLC</span></strong><span style="color:maroon"><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Intellectual Property Law</span></strong><br>
</span></span><span class="c4"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon"><br>
</span><span class="c4"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Roseland, NJ 07068</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:maroon"><br>
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<br>
<strong><u><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/" title="http://www.weitzmanip.com/">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></u></strong><b><u><br>
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</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On 12/10/2024 1:22 PM, David Boundy wrote:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I disagree with Richard. <i>Solomon</i> doesn't come right out and say it, but it's there a millimeter below the surface -- the client hires the whole lawyer, not just part, not the lawyer with the technological brain
hemisphere removed. <a href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3060703343000303777" title="https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3060703343000303777">
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3060703343000303777</a> If you as the technologically trained lawyer see an improvement, disclose it, and claim it. I would not name myself inventor, but others could take a different view.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I think <i>Solomon</i> says clearly that there's no obligation to name yourself as an inventor. What more do you (Mr Strassman) need?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The problems with naming yourself inventor are --</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> (a) it's almost certain to lead to a waiver of privilege</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> (b) your likelihood of being deposed goes from very low, only if there's already a plausibel basis for inequitable conduct, to certain. And once you're in the hot seat, there are very few limits on what you can be
asked.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Weigh those two risks against -- what advantage?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 12:40</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span><span lang="EN-US">PM Richard Straussman via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" title="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">If the Inventor's answer after trying to get recognition in multiple ways (and not surprisingly, given his background) answered, "Do you envision
that this could be \u2026 ?" would have been "Heck no. Never in a million years!" Then, in my view, that should have been the end of it. The attorney should not have contributed that entirely different innovation. I agree that would be true inventing and well
outside of the attorney's role. <br>
<br>
That is in sharp contrast to a circumstance where, for example, a part is linearly moved by a mechanical actuator and the inventor (who knows nothing about electronics) is asked whether a solenoid could be used in place of the mechanical movement, but the attorney
knows they are interchangeable and it is a trivial, non-inventive, swap. Irrespective of what the inventor says, I would include the solenoid, or state something like, "while the linear actuator is shown as a mechanical device, the important aspect is the
linear movement, not the device used to supply it, so it is to be appreciated that suitable electronic or other devices that can provide the same linear movement can alternatively be used."</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Richard Straussman</span></strong><b><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Senior Counsel</span></strong><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Registered Patent Attorney</span></strong><br>
</span></b><span lang="EN-US">Member NY, NJ & CT Bars<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">. . . . . . . . . . . . . .</span></strong>
<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Weitzman Law Offices, LLC</span></strong><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Intellectual Property Law</span></strong><br>
425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401<br>
Roseland, NJ 07068<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">direct line</span></strong> 973.403.9943<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">main</span></strong> 973.403.9940<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">fax</span></strong> 973.403.9944<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">e-mail</span></strong> <a href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com">
rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a><br>
<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/" target="_blank" title="http://www.weitzmanip.com/">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></strong><b><br>
</b><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On 12/10/2024 12:25 PM, Patent Lawyer via Patentpractice wrote:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks all for the responses and interesting discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">First, I will follow David Boundy's guidance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">But let me give a little more context in light of some other responses.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">In this case, the invention is purely 100% mechanical. It relates to an improvement of a device that has existed for over 100 years. The inventor's expertise
and background are all mechanical. He has zero background in electrical or computer-related technology.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">The patent attorney has expertise and qualifications in electrical and computer-related technologies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">During drafting, the patent attorney recognized that the 100% purely mechanical device could be combined with a particular type of electrical device. This combination
is useful. But it was entirely out of the realm of the inventor's knowledge or technical background. The inventor would not have realized the problem, let alone contemplated the solution. In this case, the patent attorney's contribution was not "a particular
embodiment/application/combination \u2026 contemplated by the inventors." The inventor's honest answer to " Do you envision that this could be \u2026 ?" would have been "Heck no. Never in a million years!"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">As to the question: "What's the potential advantage of naming the attorney as an inventor?"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Well, what if ten years from now, the invention makes a bazillion dollars, and the attorney wants his share? Or maybe the patent attorney's heirs want his share?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Or what if the inventor is in his 30s, and the patent attorney is 65 years old, and the application can get special treatment in the USPTO?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">[I once took over the prosecution of an application that named two inventors, father and son. While the father had the right technical qualifications, I was
sure he was named just to get the special "over 65" treatment in the USPTO.]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Or what about all the arguments made here a few weeks ago about over-inclusion of inventors rather than under-inclusion? [Per Carl's recent email]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">But again, I will follow Boundy's advice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">P.S. Last year, I had dinner with an ex and an old client. I'd worked with him in 1994-95, and got him 5 or 6 patents. His invention (at a small company) made
the company a lot of money through patent enforcement and licensing. At one point in the dinner, he got very earnest and said he had something to get off his chest. Something he had felt bad about for almost 30 years. He said he always felt I should have
been named an inventor. The breakthrough in the invention came from something I'd asked during one of our initial meetings. It gave him an insight that he'd not previously had, and it was the way the invention was implemented and claimed. Had I been named
as an inventor, I would just have assigned the invention to the client anyway. Maybe it would have been nice to be named on those patents, but that is just about vanity. I told him it was no big deal and I still paid for dinner.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Patentpractice
<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com">
<patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> on behalf of Patentpractice Patentpractice
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>Patentpractice Patentpractice <a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, December 10, 2024 at 10:05 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Patentpractice Patentpractice <a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>David Boundy <a href="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com">
<PatentProcedure@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Patentpractice] Patent lawyer as inventor on client's application?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Yes. Exactly and emphatically. Different facts and different case law leads to different outcomes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 8:51 AM Carl Oppedahl via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">While we are on this topic. It was just a few weeks ago that many members of this listserv piled on top of each other, urging to anyone who would listen that if you had to make a mistake with your inventor list, it absolutely was better
to commit the sin of misjoinder than nonjoinder. That if you are going to make a mistake with your inventor list, there are a seemingly infinite number of risks and downsides and traps for the unwary if your mistake were to be in the direction of failing
to include some otherwise possibly deserving name on your inventor list. That a mistake the other way (perhaps including some name on the inventor list that might arguably not belong there) was by far the less risky, had virtually no downsides, and did not
give rise to traps for the unwary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">And yet now (I have not been keeping close score on this) it seems that many of the same members of this listserv are urging that no matter how deserving the attorney might be to get included on the inventor list, the correct next step
is nonjoinder.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On 12/10/2024 8:38 AM, Jeffrey Semprebon via Patentpractice wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Where I've had this issue arise has been where, while drafting the application, I've seen either a way to work around the narrower claims based on the inventor's
disclosed embodiments or a way to accomplish the same functional limitation with a simpler structure than used by the inventors (or both).
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<br>
Suppose that the client likes whatever modification/alternative well enough to put it into a dependent claim, and then during examination it turns out that such limitation is needed to distinguish over prior art found by the examiner. In that case, does failing
to name the practitioner as inventor invite any risk if the named inventors will have to truthfully state during depositions that the practitioner was the one who thought of that limitation?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">-Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
Jeffrey E. Semprebon<br>
Registered Patent Agent (mechanical) looking for remote work<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:jesemprebon@gmail.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:jesemprebon@gmail.com">jesemprebon@gmail.com</a><br>
72 Myrtle Street<br>
Claremont, New Hampshire 03743<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 7:40</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span><span lang="EN-US">AM David Boundy via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Let me stress that. As far as I know, there are no countervailing benefits to be had or risks avoided by naming the agent/attorney as inventor. It's 100% downside.
Don't do it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Another experience, I was not directly involved in the case, but I was in-house counsel at eSpeed during appeal phase.
<a href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=11175138575348740529" target="_blank" title="https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=11175138575348740529">
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=11175138575348740529</a> (then look at the D Delaware cases). The problem was that the lawyers (Fish & Neave) mixed up who was wearing which hat, between inventors, company management, and the lawyers. That metastasized
into a comprehensive subject matter waiver. And because of that, a tiny little document was produced, and that turned into inequitable conduct, and losing the case. eSpeed had had a monopoly in its market. And then it didn't.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">It's REALLY important to understand role pigeonholes or information compartmentalization, and keep everybody in their pigeonholes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 6:22</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span><span lang="EN-US">AM David Boundy <<a href="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com">PatentProcedure@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">I disagree with Judith and Carl. It's a MISTAKE, a potentially-catastrophic mistake with no upside, for any lawyer to name him/herself as an inventor, in-house
or outside. You're almost guaranteeing a hole in the privilege, and potentially a subject matter waiver. Back in my litigator days, one of my little specialties was depositions of attorneys. If you have a witness that's a fact witness or some issues, and
the attorney for others, oh man what a tasty target rich environment. DON'T DO IT.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">You'll find my name on some of my early patents, but not after I sat as guest of honor or a couple depositions by Cravath, Kirkland & Ellis, and similar firms,
and realized how many of my defense counsel's objections would not be possible if I had been a named inventor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">I disagree with David Hricik. His paper
<a href="https://digitalcommons.law.mercer.edu/jour_mlr/vol55/iss2/4/" target="_blank" title="https://digitalcommons.law.mercer.edu/jour_mlr/vol55/iss2/4/">
https://digitalcommons.law.mercer.edu/jour_mlr/vol55/iss2/4/</a> proceeds from these two sentences:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On the one occasion the Federal Circuit did address this issue, ... the court stated that as a matter of law, practitioners can never be inventors.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">The Federal Circuit was wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">That's not the way it works. When a panel majority of people with black robes, presidential appointments, and Senate Confirmations say that it is fine -- no
error, no statutory violation, just fine -- to not name lawyer as inventor, well, that's the law.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">This is not a close call. Just don't.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 11:19</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span><span lang="EN-US">PM Judith S via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">I agree that as outside counsel you should never name yourself as an inventor for a patent you wrote.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">But I've had more than one in-house counsel who contributed to the invention when we were discussing it in committee. I think that's not a big issue, if in-house
counsel becomes an inventor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Judith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:40</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span><span lang="EN-US">PM Suzannah K. Sundby via Patentpractice
<<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">I\u2019d also question whether the patent attorney is truly a \u201cjoint\u201d inventor, i.e., worked in \u2018collaboration\u2019, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Imho, patent attorneys should never
<i>write themselves in</i> as an inventor. After all, it is our job to write what the inventors envision is their invention, not what we think the inventors want to invent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">If a patent attorney has a question as to whether a particular embodiment/application/combination is contemplated by the inventors and should therefore be included
as a claim, the patent attorney should ask as the inventors a <i>leading</i> question, e.g., Do you envision that this could be \u2026 ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Sometimes they say something that\u2019s a great idea or yes, that\u2019s how it could be implemented\u2026 I then correct them and say it is what I understood from their own
disclosure and/or I didn\u2019t know whether it would work or not which is why I asked, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssundby/" target="_blank" title="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssundby/">Suzannah
K. Sundby</a> <b>|</b> Partner<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.canadylortz.com/" target="_blank" title="http://www.canadylortz.com/">canady
+ lortz LLP</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">1050 30th Street, NW<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Washington, DC 20007<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">T: 202.486.8020<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">F: 202.540.8020<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:suzannah@canadylortz.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:suzannah@canadylortz.com">suzannah@canadylortz.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.canadylortz.com/" target="_blank" title="http://www.canadylortz.com/">www.canadylortz.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Confidentiality Notice: This message is being sent by or on behalf of a lawyer. It is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed.
This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged or confidential, or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you may not read, print, retain, copy, or disseminate this message or any part. If
you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete all copies of the message.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Boundy via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 9, 2024 1:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Boundy <<a href="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com">PatentProcedure@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Patent lawyer as inventor on client's application?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">My view is that you should not name yourself inventor without a Really Good Reason. Here are the reasons that you should not name yourself as inventor:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">\u25cf If you are merely the attorney, not the inventor, you are unlikely to be called for deposition\u2014attorneys generally don\u2019t get deposed unless there\u2019s some smell of inequitable conduct in the air first.<a href="#m_6487588021621560798_m_-32732232650541"><sup>[1]</sup></a>
However, if you are a named inventor, you <i>will</i> be deposed. And once you\u2019re in the hot seat in your role as inventor, the scope of questions that you can be asked has little bound, including \u201cfishing expedition\u201d questions for inequitable conduct that
couldn\u2019t be asked if you weren\u2019t already there.<a href="#m_6487588021621560798_m_-32732232650541"><sup>[2]</sup></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">\u25cf When a statement of fact made solely as <i>attorney argument</i> is erroneous without intent, it\u2019s not inequitable conduct.<a href="#m_6487588021621560798_m_-32732232650541"><sup>[3]</sup></a> However, if you are the inventor, the
same argument could be an <i>inventor\u2019s statement</i>, and that statement might be evaluated for inequitable conduct on a far different standard.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">\u25cf As a person that is likely to become a witness, you are disqualified from representing the client in any litigation. The disqualification may extend to your firm.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">While the Federal Circuit has not explicitly blessed the practice, it has at least told district courts not to invalidate such patents under old § 102(f) (\u201cA
person shall be entitled to a patent unless \u2026 he did not himself invent the subject matter sought to be patented.\u201d), nor to correct inventorship under § 256:<a href="#m_6487588021621560798_m_-32732232650541"><sup>[4]</sup></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">\u2026 An attorney\u2019s professional responsibility is to assist his or her client in defining her invention to obtain, if possible, a valid patent with maximum coverage. An attorney performing that role should not be a competitor of the client,
asserting his inventorship as a result of representing his client. Thus, to assert that proper performance of the attorney\u2019s role is a ground for invalidating the patent constitutes a failure to understand the proper role of the patent attorney.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <sup>[1]</sup> <i>Ring Plus Inc v Cingular Wireless Corp.</i>, 614 F.3d 1354, ___, 6 USPQ2d 1022, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2010) (material misstatement in Background was material to inequitable conduct, but did not establish intent to
deceive); Taltech Ltd v Esquel Ents Ltd., 604 F3d 1324, ___, 95 USPQ2d 1257, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2010) (inequitable conduct & atty fees in undisclosed prior art, atty misstatement; intent inferred from circumstance & lack evidence of good faith).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <sup>[2]</sup> Exergen Corp v Wal-Mart Stores Inc., 575 F3d 1312, ___, 91 USPQ2d 1656, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2009) (FRCP 9(b) pleading of inequitable conduct reqs specific who, what, when, where and how, including facts implying intent).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><a name="m_6487588021621560798_m_-327322326505412"></a><span lang="EN-US">
<sup>[3]</sup> <i>Intirtool Ltd v Texar Corp.</i>, 369 F3d 1289, ___, 70 USPQ2d 1780, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2004) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i>Norian Corp v Stryker Corp.</i>, 363 F3d 1321, 70 USPQ2d 1508 (Fed. Cir. 2004) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i>CFMT Inc v Yieldup Int\u2019l Corp.</i>, 349 F3d 1333, ___, 68 USPQ2d 1940, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2003) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i>Transonic Systems Inc v Non-Invasive Medical Technologies Corp.</i>, 75 Fed.Appx. 765 (Fed. Cir. 2003) (unpublished) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i>Gambro Lundia AB v Baxter Healthcare Corp</i>, 110 F3d 1573, ___, 42 USPQ2d 1378, ___ (Fed. Cir. 1997).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <sup>[4]</sup> <i>Solomon v. Kimberly-Clark Corp.</i>, 216 F.3d 1372, 1382, 55 USPQ2d 1279, 1285 (Fed. Cir. 2000).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 1:40</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span><span lang="EN-US">PM Carl Oppedahl via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" title="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">I have had this happen half a dozen times over the years. I send the standard email "here are the claims, please look at them and tell me if we have named all of the inventors" and next thing you know, I am told I am a co-inventor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">When this happens, I simply sign a declaration and asssignment, record the assignment, and give it no further thought.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Yes I suppose one could concoct situations where (for example) a malfeasant patent attorney could intentionally slip a "not" into the assignment, or could intentionally do something or another during prosecution that would somehow favor
the attorney. To the extent that one decides that such risks would need to be somehow addressed, yes one cannot imagine any approach other than transferring everything about the case (including the assignment task) to separate counsel.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">One imagines the client would get stuck paying lots of money to new counsel for them to spend the time needed gain familiarity with the file.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">I guess I have sort of assumed that if I can be trusted not to screw over the client in the handling of the file in general (before I was identified as a co-inventor), I ought to be able to be trusted not to screw over the client in the
remaining tasks. But you raise valid questions that I have never thought about.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On 12/9/2024 1:03 PM, Patent Lawyer via Patentpractice wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">What issues / concerns are there with a patent attorney being named an inventor on their client's patent application?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Assume that the attorney will assign all rights in the invention to the client/applicant, should the attorney advise them to have someone else handle the assignment?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Are there privilege issues? (In a communication with the client, who are you? Attorney or co-inventor?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Does the patent attorney have to advise the PTO? Is there a conflict of any sort?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><b><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy" target="_blank" title="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"><span style="font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none">Error!
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<p><b><span lang="EN-US">Cambridge Technology Law LLC</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><br>
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