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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">I seem to recall having one or more interviews with Mr. Harris when
I was an Examiner.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Malgun Gothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Randall S. Svihla<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""> Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Judith S via Patentpractice<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, December 10, 2024 6:02 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Judith S <judith.a.s@gmail.com><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Patentpractice] Patent lawyer as inventor on client's application?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">That reminds me of the story of Scott C. Harris formerly of Fish and Richardson, the least ethical patent attorney I've ever heard of.
<a href="https://www.techdirt.com/2007/10/19/patent-troll-attorney-licensed-patents-to-be-used-against-his-own-firms-clients/">
https://www.techdirt.com/2007/10/19/patent-troll-attorney-licensed-patents-to-be-used-against-his-own-firms-clients/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">It appears he's still licensed & runs a solo shop.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Judith<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 10:12\u202fAM Richard Straussman via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="2" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">The attorney can not file their own application at least because that violates their ethical obligations involving
a prohibition on using client confidences. <br>
<br>
To my mind, the entirely different innovation is up for grabs for someone else who conceives of it - if anyone does - bearing in mind that the inventor's application will be prior art to that when it publishes as will the commercial product from the inventor,
<i><span style="font-style:italic">e.g.</span></i>, when in public use or offered for sale/sold.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Richard Straussman</span></font></b></strong><b><span style="font-weight:bold"><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Senior Counsel</span></font></b></strong><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Registered Patent Attorney</span></font></b></strong><br>
</span></b>Member NY, NJ & CT Bars<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">. . . . . . . . . . . . . .</span></font></b></strong>
<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Weitzman Law Offices, LLC</span></font></b></strong><br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Intellectual Property Law</span></font></b></strong><br>
425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401<br>
Roseland, NJ 07068<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">direct line</span></font></b></strong> 973.403.9943<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">main</span></font></b></strong> 973.403.9940<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">fax</span></font></b></strong> 973.403.9944<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">e-mail</span></font></b></strong>
<a href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com" target="_blank">rstraussman@weitzmanip.com</a><br>
<br>
<strong><b><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/" target="_blank">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></font></b></strong><b><span style="font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></b><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On 12/10/2024 1:08 PM, Patent Lawyer wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Ok, if, \u201c[t]he attorney should not have contributed that entirely different innovation,\u201d can the attorney file their
own patent application for that \u201centirely different innovation\u201d? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I know this is pushing the boundaries a bit, but I am sure this kind of thing has happened.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From a public policy point of view, should the \u201centirely different innovation\u201d just go away or become public domain?
The client has the ability to commercialize the product, including the patent attorney\u2019s contribution. The patent attorney does not.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold">From:
</span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="color:black">Patentpractice <a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">
<patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> on behalf of Patentpractice Patentpractice
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span></b>Patentpractice Patentpractice
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span></b>Tuesday, December 10, 2024 at 12:41 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span></b>Patentpractice Patentpractice <a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span></b>Richard Straussman <a href="mailto:rstraussman@weitzmanip.com" target="_blank">
<rstraussman@weitzmanip.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span></b>Re: [Patentpractice] Patent lawyer as inventor on client's application?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="2" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">If the Inventor's answer after trying to get recognition in multiple ways (and not surprisingly,
given his background) answered, "Do you envision that this could be \u2026 ?" would have been "Heck no. Never in a million years!" Then, in my view, that should have been the end of it. The attorney should not have contributed that entirely different innovation.
I agree that would be true inventing and well outside of the attorney's role. <br>
<br>
That is in sharp contrast to a circumstance where, for example, a part is linearly moved by a mechanical actuator and the inventor (who knows nothing about electronics) is asked whether a solenoid could be used in place of the mechanical movement, but the attorney
knows they are interchangeable and it is a trivial, non-inventive, swap. Irrespective of what the inventor says, I would include the solenoid, or state something like, "while the linear actuator is shown as a mechanical device, the important aspect is the
linear movement, not the device used to supply it, so it is to be appreciated that suitable electronic or other devices that can provide the same linear movement can alternatively be used."</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><b><font size="2" color="blue" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:blue">Richard Straussman</span></font></b></strong><b><font size="1" color="navy" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:navy;font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></font>Senior Counsel</b><b><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></font></b><b><font size="1"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-weight:bold">Registered Patent Attorney</span></font></b><b><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></font></b><font size="1"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">Member NY, NJ & CT Bars</span></font><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
</span></font><strong><b><font size="1" color="#989898" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:#989898">. . . . . . . . . . . . . .</span></font></b></strong>
<font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
<strong><b><font color="maroon" face="Verdana"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:maroon">Weitzman Law Offices, LLC</span></font></b></strong><font color="maroon"><span style="color:maroon"><br>
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<br>
<strong><b><u><font face="Verdana"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri"><a href="http://www.weitzmanip.com/" target="_blank">http://www.weitzmanip.com</a></span></font></u></b></strong><b><u><span style="font-weight:bold"><br>
</span></u></b><br style="mso-special-character:line-break">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On 12/10/2024 12:25 PM, Patent Lawyer via Patentpractice wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks all for the responses and interesting discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">First, I will follow David Boundy's guidance.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">But let me give a little more context in light of some other responses.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In this case, the invention is purely 100% mechanical. It relates to an improvement of a device that has existed for
over 100 years. The inventor's expertise and background are all mechanical. He has zero background in electrical or computer-related technology.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The patent attorney has expertise and qualifications in electrical and computer-related technologies.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">During drafting, the patent attorney recognized that the 100% purely mechanical device could be combined with a particular
type of electrical device. This combination is useful. But it was entirely out of the realm of the inventor's knowledge or technical background. The inventor would not have realized the problem, let alone contemplated the solution. In this case, the patent
attorney's contribution was not "a particular embodiment/application/combination \u2026 contemplated by the inventors." The inventor's honest answer to " Do you envision that this could be \u2026 ?" would have been "Heck no. Never in a million years!"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">As to the question: "What's the potential advantage of naming the attorney as an inventor?"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Well, what if ten years from now, the invention makes a bazillion dollars, and the attorney wants his share? Or maybe
the patent attorney's heirs want his share?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Or what if the inventor is in his 30s, and the patent attorney is 65 years old, and the application can get special
treatment in the USPTO?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">[I once took over the prosecution of an application that named two inventors, father and son. While the father had
the right technical qualifications, I was sure he was named just to get the special "over 65" treatment in the USPTO.]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Or what about all the arguments made here a few weeks ago about over-inclusion of inventors rather than under-inclusion?
[Per Carl's recent email]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">But again, I will follow Boundy's advice.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">P.S. Last year, I had dinner with an ex and an old client. I'd worked with him in 1994-95, and got him 5 or 6 patents.
His invention (at a small company) made the company a lot of money through patent enforcement and licensing. At one point in the dinner, he got very earnest and said he had something to get off his chest. Something he had felt bad about for almost 30 years.
He said he always felt I should have been named an inventor. The breakthrough in the invention came from something I'd asked during one of our initial meetings. It gave him an insight that he'd not previously had, and it was the way the invention was implemented
and claimed. Had I been named as an inventor, I would just have assigned the invention to the client anyway. Maybe it would have been nice to be named on those patents, but that is just about vanity. I told him it was no big deal and I still paid for dinner.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold">From:
</span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="color:black">Patentpractice <a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">
<patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> on behalf of Patentpractice Patentpractice
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span></b>Patentpractice Patentpractice
<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank"><patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span></b>Tuesday, December 10, 2024 at 10:05 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span></b>Patentpractice Patentpractice <a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">
<patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span></b>David Boundy <a href="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com" target="_blank">
<PatentProcedure@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span></b>Re: [Patentpractice] Patent lawyer as inventor on client's application?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Yes. Exactly and emphatically. Different facts and different case law leads to different outcomes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 8:51 AM Carl Oppedahl via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">While we are on this topic. It was just a few weeks ago that many members of this listserv piled on top of each other, urging to anyone who would listen that if you had to make a mistake with
your inventor list, it absolutely was better to commit the sin of misjoinder than nonjoinder. That if you are going to make a mistake with your inventor list, there are a seemingly infinite number of risks and downsides and traps for the unwary if your mistake
were to be in the direction of failing to include some otherwise possibly deserving name on your inventor list. That a mistake the other way (perhaps including some name on the inventor list that might arguably not belong there) was by far the less risky,
had virtually no downsides, and did not give rise to traps for the unwary.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">And yet now (I have not been keeping close score on this) it seems that many of the same members of this listserv are urging that no matter how deserving the attorney might be to get included on
the inventor list, the correct next step is nonjoinder.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On 12/10/2024 8:38 AM, Jeffrey Semprebon via Patentpractice wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Where I've had this issue arise has been where, while drafting the application, I've seen either a way to work around
the narrower claims based on the inventor's disclosed embodiments or a way to accomplish the same functional limitation with a simpler structure than used by the inventors (or both).
<br>
<br>
Suppose that the client likes whatever modification/alternative well enough to put it into a dependent claim, and then during examination it turns out that such limitation is needed to distinguish over prior art found by the examiner. In that case, does failing
to name the practitioner as inventor invite any risk if the named inventors will have to truthfully state during depositions that the practitioner was the one who thought of that limitation?
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
Jeffrey E. Semprebon<br>
Registered Patent Agent (mechanical) looking for remote work<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="mailto:jesemprebon@gmail.com" target="_blank">jesemprebon@gmail.com</a><br>
72 Myrtle Street<br>
Claremont, New Hampshire 03743<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 7:40\u202fAM David Boundy via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Let me stress that. As far as I know, there are no countervailing benefits to be had or risks avoided by naming the
agent/attorney as inventor. It's 100% downside. Don't do it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Another experience, I was not directly involved in the case, but I was in-house counsel at eSpeed during appeal phase.
<a href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=11175138575348740529" target="_blank">
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=11175138575348740529</a> (then look at the D Delaware cases). The problem was that the lawyers (Fish & Neave) mixed up who was wearing which hat, between inventors, company management, and the lawyers. That metastasized
into a comprehensive subject matter waiver. And because of that, a tiny little document was produced, and that turned into inequitable conduct, and losing the case. eSpeed had had a monopoly in its market. And then it didn't.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">It's REALLY important to understand role pigeonholes or information compartmentalization, and keep everybody in their
pigeonholes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 6:22\u202fAM David Boundy <<a href="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com" target="_blank">PatentProcedure@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I disagree with Judith and Carl. It's a MISTAKE, a potentially-catastrophic mistake with no upside, for any lawyer
to name him/herself as an inventor, in-house or outside. You're almost guaranteeing a hole in the privilege, and potentially a subject matter waiver. Back in my litigator days, one of my little specialties was depositions of attorneys. If you have a witness
that's a fact witness or some issues, and the attorney for others, oh man what a tasty target rich environment. DON'T DO IT.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">You'll find my name on some of my early patents, but not after I sat as guest of honor or a couple depositions by Cravath,
Kirkland & Ellis, and similar firms, and realized how many of my defense counsel's objections would not be possible if I had been a named inventor.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I disagree with David Hricik. His paper
<a href="https://digitalcommons.law.mercer.edu/jour_mlr/vol55/iss2/4/" target="_blank">
https://digitalcommons.law.mercer.edu/jour_mlr/vol55/iss2/4/</a> proceeds from these two sentences:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On the one occasion the Federal Circuit did address this issue, ... the court stated that as a matter of law, practitioners
can never be inventors. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The Federal Circuit was wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">That's not the way it works. When a panel majority of people with black robes, presidential appointments, and Senate
Confirmations say that it is fine -- no error, no statutory violation, just fine -- to not name lawyer as inventor, well, that's the law.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This is not a close call. Just don't.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 11:19\u202fPM Judith S via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I agree that as outside counsel you should never name yourself as an inventor for a patent you wrote.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">But I've had more than one in-house counsel who contributed to the invention when we were discussing it in committee.
I think that's not a big issue, if in-house counsel becomes an inventor.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Judith<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:40\u202fPM Suzannah K. Sundby via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I\u2019d also question whether the patent attorney is truly a \u201cjoint\u201d inventor, i.e., worked in \u2018collaboration\u2019, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Imho, patent attorneys should never
<i><span style="font-style:italic">write themselves in</span></i> as an inventor. After all, it is our job to write what the inventors envision is their invention, not what we think the inventors want to invent.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If a patent attorney has a question as to whether a particular embodiment/application/combination is contemplated by
the inventors and should therefore be included as a claim, the patent attorney should ask as the inventors a
<i><span style="font-style:italic">leading</span></i> question, e.g., Do you envision that this could be \u2026 ?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Sometimes they say something that\u2019s a great idea or yes, that\u2019s how it could be implemented\u2026 I then correct them and
say it is what I understood from their own disclosure and/or I didn\u2019t know whether it would work or not which is why I asked, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssundby/" target="_blank">Suzannah K. Sundby</a>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">|</span></b> Partner<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.canadylortz.com/" target="_blank">canady + lortz LLP</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">1050 30th Street, NW<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Washington, DC 20007<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">T: 202.486.8020<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">F: 202.540.8020<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="mailto:suzannah@canadylortz.com" target="_blank">suzannah@canadylortz.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.canadylortz.com/" target="_blank">www.canadylortz.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Confidentiality Notice: This message is being sent by or on behalf of a lawyer. It is intended exclusively for the
individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged or confidential, or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you may not read, print, retain, copy,
or disseminate this message or any part. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete all copies of the message.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>David Boundy via Patentpractice<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, December 9, 2024 1:52 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> David Boundy <<a href="mailto:PatentProcedure@gmail.com" target="_blank">PatentProcedure@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Patentpractice] Patent lawyer as inventor on client's application?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">My view is that you should not name yourself inventor without a Really Good Reason. Here are the reasons that you should
not name yourself as inventor: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">\u25cf If you are merely the attorney, not the inventor, you are unlikely to be called for deposition\u2014attorneys generally don\u2019t get deposed unless there\u2019s some smell of inequitable conduct in the
air first.<a href="#m_646227449012351987_m_-733043104723784"><sup>[1]</sup></a> However, if you are a named inventor, you
<i><span style="font-style:italic">will</span></i> be deposed. And once you\u2019re in the hot seat in your role as inventor, the scope of questions that you can be asked has little bound, including \u201cfishing expedition\u201d questions for inequitable conduct that couldn\u2019t
be asked if you weren\u2019t already there.<a href="#m_646227449012351987_m_-733043104723784"><sup>[2]</sup></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">\u25cf When a statement of fact made solely as
<i><span style="font-style:italic">attorney argument</span></i> is erroneous without intent, it\u2019s not inequitable conduct.<a href="#m_646227449012351987_m_-733043104723784"><sup>[3]</sup></a> However, if you are the inventor, the same argument could be an
<i><span style="font-style:italic">inventor\u2019s statement</span></i>, and that statement might be evaluated for inequitable conduct on a far different standard.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">\u25cf As a person that is likely to become a witness, you are disqualified from representing the client in any litigation. The disqualification may extend to your firm.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">While the Federal Circuit has not explicitly blessed the practice, it has at least told district courts not to invalidate
such patents under old § 102(f) (\u201cA person shall be entitled to a patent unless \u2026 he did not himself invent the subject matter sought to be patented.\u201d), nor to correct inventorship under § 256:<a href="#m_646227449012351987_m_-733043104723784"><sup>[4]</sup></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">\u2026 An attorney\u2019s professional responsibility is to assist his or her client in defining her invention to obtain, if possible, a valid patent with maximum coverage. An attorney performing that role
should not be a competitor of the client, asserting his inventorship as a result of representing his client. Thus, to assert that proper performance of the attorney\u2019s role is a ground for invalidating the patent constitutes a failure to understand the proper
role of the patent attorney.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <sup>
[1]</sup> <i><span style="font-style:italic">Ring Plus Inc v Cingular Wireless Corp.</span></i>, 614 F.3d 1354, ___, 6 USPQ2d 1022, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2010) (material misstatement in Background was material to inequitable conduct, but did not establish intent to
deceive); Taltech Ltd v Esquel Ents Ltd., 604 F3d 1324, ___, 95 USPQ2d 1257, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2010) (inequitable conduct & atty fees in undisclosed prior art, atty misstatement; intent inferred from circumstance & lack evidence of good faith).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <sup>
[2]</sup> Exergen Corp v Wal-Mart Stores Inc., 575 F3d 1312, ___, 91 USPQ2d 1656, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2009) (FRCP 9(b) pleading of inequitable conduct reqs specific who, what, when, where and how, including facts implying intent).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><a name="m_646227449012351987_m_-7330431047237845"></a><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">
<sup>[3]</sup> <i><span style="font-style:italic">Intirtool Ltd v Texar Corp.</span></i>, 369 F3d 1289, ___, 70 USPQ2d 1780, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2004) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i><span style="font-style:italic">Norian Corp v Stryker Corp.</span></i>, 363 F3d 1321, 70 USPQ2d 1508 (Fed. Cir. 2004) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i><span style="font-style:italic">CFMT Inc v Yieldup Int\u2019l Corp.</span></i>, 349 F3d 1333, ___, 68 USPQ2d 1940, ___ (Fed. Cir. 2003) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i><span style="font-style:italic">Transonic Systems Inc v Non-Invasive Medical Technologies Corp.</span></i>, 75 Fed.Appx. 765 (Fed. Cir. 2003) (unpublished) (inequitable conduct of faulty prosecution arguments);
<i><span style="font-style:italic">Gambro Lundia AB v Baxter Healthcare Corp</span></i>, 110 F3d 1573, ___, 42 USPQ2d 1378, ___ (Fed. Cir. 1997).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <sup>
[4]</sup> <i><span style="font-style:italic">Solomon v. Kimberly-Clark Corp.</span></i>, 216 F.3d 1372, 1382, 55 USPQ2d 1279, 1285 (Fed. Cir. 2000).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 1:40\u202fPM Carl Oppedahl via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
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<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I have had this happen half a dozen times over the years. I send the standard email "here are the claims, please look at them and tell me if we have named all of the inventors" and next thing
you know, I am told I am a co-inventor.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">When this happens, I simply sign a declaration and asssignment, record the assignment, and give it no further thought.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Yes I suppose one could concoct situations where (for example) a malfeasant patent attorney could intentionally slip a "not" into the assignment, or could intentionally do something or another
during prosecution that would somehow favor the attorney. To the extent that one decides that such risks would need to be somehow addressed, yes one cannot imagine any approach other than transferring everything about the case (including the assignment task)
to separate counsel.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">One imagines the client would get stuck paying lots of money to new counsel for them to spend the time needed gain familiarity with the file.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I guess I have sort of assumed that if I can be trusted not to screw over the client in the handling of the file in general (before I was identified as a co-inventor), I ought to be able to be
trusted not to screw over the client in the remaining tasks. But you raise valid questions that I have never thought about.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On 12/9/2024 1:03 PM, Patent Lawyer via Patentpractice wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">What issues / concerns are there with a patent attorney being named an inventor on their client's patent application?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Assume that the attorney will assign all rights in the invention to the client/applicant, should the attorney advise
them to have someone else handle the assignment? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Are there privilege issues? (In a communication with the client, who are you? Attorney or co-inventor?)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Does the patent attorney have to advise the PTO? Is there a conflict of any sort?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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