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\u201cRestriction to one of the following inventions is required under 35 USC 121:\u201d <br></div><div><br></div><div>Yup, that's a statutory restriction.</div><div><br></div><div>Krista to Randall > "
But how can it be a proper restriction requirement when independent
claim 11 (or any claim) is in two groups? Doesn\u2019t that by definition
mean that Groups 2 and 3 are neither independent nor distinct?"</div><div></div><div><br></div><div>Yup, that's confiramtion that you're dealing with a really confused examiner. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Suzannah ><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">When I get an unclear and/or defective Restriction Requirement, I either: 1. </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Respond indicating that the groupings don\u2019t make sense, and then I proceed to divide the claims and then
select the group I want :)"</span>
<div class="gmail-aju"><div class="gmail-aCi"><br></div><div class="gmail-aCi">Yup. And it may be that what you want is no division at all. <br></div><div class="gmail-aCi"><br></div></div><table cellpadding="0" class="gmail-cf gmail-gJ"><tbody><tr class="gmail-acZ gmail-xD"><td colspan="3"><table cellpadding="0" class="gmail-cf gmail-adz"><tbody><tr><td class="gmail-ady"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></div>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 16, 2024 at 9:27\u202fPM Krista Jacobsen via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Hi Randall,<div><br></div><div>That\u2019s what I thought \u2014 it is a restriction requirement and not an election of species. He identified claim 11 and the dependent claims common to Groups 2 and 3 as \u201clinking claims."</div><div><br id="m_-1464481642504958941lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div>
<div>But how can it be a proper restriction requirement when independent claim 11 (or any claim) is in two groups? Doesn\u2019t that by definition mean that Groups 2 and 3 are neither independent nor distinct? I always thought (maybe incorrectly??) that statutory restriction requirements had to split the claims into non-overlapping groups (to meet \u201cindependent or distinct\u201d), and it was only species elections that might result in independent claims being included in multiple species (because they are generic). </div><div><br></div><div>This is why I think it\u2019s a defective restriction requirement. He could have created two groups (1-10, 11-20), and then imposed a species election within claims 11-20, and that might have been kosher. But that is not what he did. </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks so much for your help to decipher this!</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Krista<br><br>------------------------------------------<br>Krista S. Jacobsen<br>Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>Jacobsen IP Law<br><a href="mailto:krista@jacobseniplaw.com" target="_blank">krista@jacobseniplaw.com</a><br>T: 408.455.5539<br><a href="http://www.jacobseniplaw.com" target="_blank">www.jacobseniplaw.com</a><br><br>NOTICE: This communication may include privileged or confidential information. If received in error, please notify the sender and delete this communication without copying or distributing.</div><div><br></div><br>
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 16, 2024, at 6:02\u202fPM, Randall Svihla <<a href="mailto:rsvihla@nsiplaw.com" target="_blank">rsvihla@nsiplaw.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Hi, Krista<u></u><u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">That is a restriction requirement, not an election of species.<span> <span> </span></span>It seems to me that Groups 2 and 3 should be related as<span> </span><span>subcombinations</span><span> </span>usable together, rather than combination/<span>subcombination</span>, but I<span> </span><span>cant</span><span> </span>be sure without knowing what the claims actually recite.<u></u><u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Although the Examiner did not mention generic claims, independent claim 11 is clearly generic to Groups 2 and 3.<span> <span> </span></span>Sometimes a claim that is generic to some but not all of the groups or inventions is referred to as a sub-generic claim.<u></u><u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Randall S. Svihla<u></u><u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">NSIP Law<u></u><u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Washington, D.C.<u></u><u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div><div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><span><span> </span>Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><span> </span><b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of<span> </span></span></b>Krista Jacobsen via Patentpractice<br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b><span> </span>Monday, December 16, 2024 8:53 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b><span> </span>For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b><span> </span>Krista Jacobsen <<a href="mailto:krista@jacobseniplaw.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">krista@jacobseniplaw.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b><span> </span>Re: [Patentpractice] Effect of traversing a partially-defective restriction requirement<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Hi Randall,<u></u><u></u></span></font></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Group 1 is \u201cdrawn to a product\u201d in a first classification.<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Group 2 is \u201cdrawn to a product\u201d in a second classification.<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Group 3 is \u201cdrawn to a product\u201d in a third classification.<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Yes, claims 1 and 11 are independent claims. <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">The examiner said Groups 1 and 2 and Groups 1 and 3 are \u201cdirected to related products.\u201d He said Groups 2 and 3 are \u201crelated as combination and subcombination.\u201d<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Is that a proper species election? Ordinarily when I get a species election, it relates to the drawings, and I have to figure out which claims I can keep. I am also used to seeing language about generic claims, and there is none of that here. <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Krista<u></u><u></u></span></font></div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"><br>------------------------------------------<br>Krista S. Jacobsen<br>Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>Jacobsen IP Law<br><a href="mailto:krista@jacobseniplaw.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">krista@jacobseniplaw.com</a><br>T: 408.455.5539<br><a href="http://www.jacobseniplaw.com/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">www.jacobseniplaw.com</a><br><br>NOTICE: This communication may include privileged or confidential information. If received in error, please notify the sender and delete this communication without copying or distributing.<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"><br><br><u></u><u></u></span></font></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">On Dec 16, 2024, at 4:42\u202fPM, Randall Svihla <<a href="mailto:rsvihla@nsiplaw.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">rsvihla@nsiplaw.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Hi, Krista</span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Are claims 1 and 11 independent claims?<span> <span> </span></span>If so, the restriction requirement may be proper, and claim 11 is generic to Groups 2 and 3.<span> <span> </span></span>If you elect Group 2 or Group 3, the Examiner has to consider claim 11.</span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">How did the Examiner say the claims are related?</span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Best regards,</span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Randall S. Svihla</span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">NSIP Law</span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Washington, D.C.</span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><span><span> </span>Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><span> </span><b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of<span> </span></span></b>Krista Jacobsen via Patentpractice<br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b><span> </span>Monday, December 16, 2024 6:27 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b><span> </span>For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b><span> </span>Krista Jacobsen <<a href="mailto:krista@jacobseniplaw.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">krista@jacobseniplaw.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b><span> </span>[Patentpractice] Effect of traversing a partially-defective restriction requirement</span><u></u><u></u></div></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">If you traverse a restriction requirement that is only partially defective, does the examiner have to withdraw the entire requirement, or can he withdraw just the part that is defective?<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Assume it's a statutory restriction requirement, and the examiner requires restriction to:<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Group 1: Claims 1-10<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Group 2: Claims 11-13, 15, 19, and 20<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Group 3: Claims 11, 14-16, 17, and 18<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Clearly, Groups 2 and 3 are neither independent nor distinct. Easiest traverse ever.<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">But assume that it would not be totally unreasonable if the examiner had required restriction between claims 1-10 and claims 11-20.<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">What happens when the traverse based on the FUBARity of Groups 2 and 3 is successful? Does the examiner have to withdraw the entire restriction requirement, or just the part that is defective? In other words, can he withdraw the requirement as to Groups 2 and 3 but still require restriction between Group 1 (claims 1-10) and Group 2' (claims 11-20)?<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">I cannot find the answer in the MPEP or in David Boundy's excellent paper, but for some reason I have a vague sense that he gets one shot at restriction, and if he blows it, and the applicant successfully traverses, he has to withdraw the entire thing.<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts and (maybe?) experiences.<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Krista<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11pt">Krista S. 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